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Post by stefano on Nov 17, 2012 17:31:13 GMT
Saturday 20 November 1965 Torquay United 1 Stockport County 4 on the way to a 3rd place finish and promotion. Saturday 18 November 2012 Torquay United 1 Southend United 4 on the way to a 3rd place finish and promotion.  |
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Jon
Admin 
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Post by Jon on Nov 17, 2012 17:59:06 GMT
The clock is working!  |
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petef
Match Room Manager
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Post by petef on Nov 17, 2012 18:01:05 GMT
For those of you with a weak disposition stop reading NOW!
The wake up call was weeks ago Dave, unfortunately the manager and the optimists amongst us have chosen to ignore and do anything whatsoever about the shortcomings of which there are a multitude.
I could see this one coming and it was only a matter of time when a half decent side took full advantage of our narrow play that lacked any penetration . For sure the defence and probably Ricey will get blamed for the four we let in but the problems for us were as they have been all season further up the pitch and that includes the ridiculous narrow one dimensional tactics that played right into Southends hands. Four defensive midfielder's, Easton Latrope and Craig, all of whom have no idea how to play in a forward role and get at the opposition with Billy Boduin supposedly playing just behind Howe. With no width whatsoever it was tragic to witness the way we got bogged down trying to play through the middle with Nico never having a player out wide to feed and play off. Bodin I believe was on the right wing but never played as a winger more free role. Eventually and not long after the start we just thumped the ball aimlessly in the air to Rene Howe who hardly one an aerial contaest all afternoon, the Sothend defenders must have been laughing their socks off at our appalling tactics and clueless play. It didnt stop there becuase once we lost the ball or simply gave it away in there pen area we had no idea how to defend their breakaways which were slick and skilful.
This match as a contest barely warrants a report Southend did all they had to to win convincingly. It was embarrassing how poor we were in so many departments , from Keeper to forward each player was looking at the other for answers and there simply were none.
I could easily have been seven or eight and had recollections of Don O'Riordons last match humiliating defeat as a manager, it really was that bad.
I suppose this what we have to expect trying to run the squad on the cheap and selling off our best players. Olejnick for Rice O'kane for Easton/Craig - what do we honestly think will be the result of changes like that?
Thankfully we do at least have a points cushion that should see us avoid a scrap at the wrong end of the table but from the look on the faces of some of the players today and watching the confidence physically drain away from each and every one it s going to be a tough and challenging second half of the season.
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Post by stewart on Nov 17, 2012 18:06:44 GMT
Saturday 20 November 1965 Torquay United 1 Stockport County 4 on the way to a 3rd place finish and promotion. Saturday 18 November 2012 Torquay United 1 Southend United 4 on the way to a 3rd place finish and promotion. The problem with that scenario is that we had good players and a good manager in 1965. |
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Post by bristolgull on Nov 17, 2012 18:27:19 GMT
Grim to be sure. Our lack of ideas going forward must surely signal a change of tactics or the signing of a loan player or two? Surely........? Please........?!!?
We have been somewhat spoilt in recent seasons with our play off and promotion exploits, maybe we are due a season of lower mid table mediocrity??!!
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Post by Ditmar van Nostrilboy on Nov 17, 2012 18:32:23 GMT
As Pete says, we were well beaten by a side with a bit of pace and inventiveness and yes, it could have been more. Once again the midfield were dominated and our sole attacking option seemed to be lob it up to Rene. Shame the centreback had him in his pocket pretty much the whole game. Things did look a little brighter with an injection of pace from Thompson and Jarvis up front after half time, nice take for the goal but once down to 10 men it was game over. Its all very well trying to play a nice passing game through midfield but not if you cant pass the ball and your wide attackers (if thats the right terminology to use) bring nothing to the table.
The only hope is that the manager will see this as a wake up call (the same as Southend last season) but I have my doubts. We just looked so one dimensional it defies belief.
And yes, the clock has hands and indeed is working now
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Dave
TFF member
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Post by Dave on Nov 17, 2012 19:11:16 GMT
Thanks for your thoughts on the game Pete; I was waiting for someone to say this result was coming, as it was something I felt as well. It has been hard not going to games myself, to try and gauge how good a team we do have this season, one thing that did seem clear was, we do have a weaker team than last season. It does sound as if the players put in plenty of effort, but maybe we are just short of some of the quality he had in the team last season?
Fans are going to point to the fact we got plenty of money come in by the way of transfers and none of that seems to have made its way back into this seasons team. Yes the Bristow Bench has had to be paid for and we do not want to see the club ending up losing money, but as I have said many times before, it’s the product that is the match itself, most pay for and expect to be able to watch a half decent team playing.
Talking of the Bristow Bench, it was said on the radio it was full of old moaners today who got on the teams back from the moment the first whistle blew. Anyone in that stand today can say if that was the case or not.
It’s ok trying to play the ball through the middle if you have the players who are good at passing and can play those killer passes, do we have those? I’m also a bit surmised we played the game so narrow, have we not got any wingers?
We all know any good centre-half just loves having long high balls in the air; I’m not surprised Mr Howe struggled to win many of them. There are times when route one football works, but it can’t be the only way you are able to play as you do soon get found out.
We have talked about where we were in the table (7th at the time) some felt that was a false position that might well prove to be the case. It has also been said this was a poor division this year, I do not think that is the case, but more the case a good number of teams have not found any real consistency.
That is not going to be the case for ever and we do need in my opinion to stop this downward slide as soon as possible, or else we really might end up at the wrong end of the table. The good news is there is still so much time left in the season, plenty in fact to sort out any problems there are and get back heading up the table again.
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Post by jmgull on Nov 17, 2012 19:31:27 GMT
It was, as the scoreline suggests a horror show - Southend were decent, no disputing that and will be top 7 (maybe top 3).
They, of course, are far better supported and have a much bigger budget than us and are able to get players in to challenge the top of this league - we've done damn well since that Roberts induced relegation season, year after year of competing and bettering teams like this.....it couldn't last forever sadly, you feel that we could be in for a tough season or two - we're definitely in for a tough 2nd half to this one judging by the performances and results over the last month or so.
Not many come out of today with any credit........even Ling after a great start to this tenure with us, seems to have lost a bit of faith in his side - how else can you fathom the decision to play the 3 holding midfielders centrally today - at home it is far, far too negative - and it must have given Sturrock and his typical very physical and highly committed team a huge boost, when I saw our line up pre match my first thoughts were, lets hope Rene has another stormer!
Easton was shockingly bad, Lathrope not far behind him and Mansell chased shadows until he finally caught up with one but was a yard late with a shuddering tackle that to be fair, looked far worse than it was - but it looked bad, obvious straight red these days.
The trouble with the 3 of them is that, they all lack pace, particularly Easton and none of them seem capable of getting on the ball and passing it forward in an attacking sense, Craig (and maybe Cruise) are the only ones capable of doing that ones wasted on the wing as he doesn't have the pace to be effective there in this formation and the other has splinters in his arse every week.
The upshot of this "midfield of mind numbing mediocrity" is it just forces our back 4 to lump it long, where Howe, whose spirit you can never question, is terribly isolated - it was the same last week at Oxford but without Howe so the ball came back every time.
You can sort of put up with it away, with a depleted side looking for a point but not at home - that is just plain dull and very shite to watch, many more teams set up at home like this and Ling's popularity will soon become a thing of the past - the fans booed a bit at half time and from what I heard whilst listening to the last bit driving home at full time too, fair enough too in my opinion, for £20 you don't want to see your time surrender the initiative before the match, that's what happened today.
I noticed a fair few extra families in the family stand too today, taking advantage of the cheaper offer, the gate was up by a couple of hundred or so - hopefully they give it another chance but you wouldn't bank on it sadly.
Where do we go from here? Well, I'm not sure he'll go 4-4-2, the midfield looks so weak already - I'd be happy with Craig restored centrally, where he looks a different player and two proper wide players with pace (Thompson has to have a run).
Rice was as bad today as he was decent, last week, the 1st goal a weakish shot from Tomlin that squirmed through his legs after some terrible defending by Nicholson, the 2nd was unluckily deflected past him from a breakaway from our corner, we were totally exposed though - the 3rd a fine cross from the touchline by Hurst, Oastler was asleep at the back post and the guy headed in from 2 yards but you would hope your keeper would come out for that and deal with it, the 4th was the worst of the lot - Mansell trod on the ball in midfield when we were looking to mount an attack, a simple pass through the middle of the back four put Tomlin away and clear put his first touch was heavy and Rice, rather than come out and clear, just stood there and gave Tomlin the easiest of finishes -he is what he is Rice, a non lge keeper.
We soon pulled one back with the only quality move we created all day, a superb cross in from Thompson that Jarvis read perfectly before sliding home a nice side foot finish - Mansell's red mist moment came soon after and any hopes of making the score look respectable were gone - Southend could and should have scored one or two more.
A day to forget indeed.....
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Post by Swanny on Nov 17, 2012 19:37:50 GMT
This sort of result has been coming for a while now and torquay were duly punished today. I was shocked today at Torquay's starting line-up as it was so ultra-defensive especially for a home game. Playing Lathrope, Easton, Mansell and shoving our one creative midfielder Craig out on the left again? Only Howe and Bodin gave us any offensive outlet. To prove the point in the first half Torquay barely had a goal attempt of note so toothless they were. At the other end Tomlin and Assombalonga had plenty of flair and pace and punished a ragged Torquay defence. It did not help matters today that most of Southend's goals stemmed from Torquay players giving the ball away cheaply. Crowd 2,449, officially 205 from Southend, sponsors MOTM Thompson for his second half performance.
On 10 minutes Tomlin got behind Torquay's defence on our left and hit a low, hard shot that went through Rice's legs. Was the shot saveable? It probably was in my opinion. On 39 minutes a Southend counter attack. Assombalonga was through on goal with a defender on him. His shot got deflected off our defender, past Rice was in no-mans land and into an empty net. Just on half-time a cross was floated over and Tomlin headed in from close range. Again you could question Oastlers defending on Tomlin and Rice who was beaten from the cross.
At half-time Ling saw sense and brought on Jarvis and Thompson for Lathrope and Easton and we switched to 4-2-2. Torquay started the second half with more tempo but within a minute found themselves 4-0 down! Another breakaway and Tomlin was through on goal with just Rice to beat. He took it around Rice and scored virtually on the goal line. Torquay looked more of a threat and a superb run and cross from Thompsom was neatly finished off from close range by Jarvis. It was a good goal poachers finish by Jarvis and that probably confirms what he is best at. He is NOT a lone striker. Torquay were getting up a good head of steam particularly Thompson on the right wing but all this was ruined by Mansell. Mansell foolishly lunged in on a tackle and took a Southend man out and got a red card. So 4-1 down and playing with 10 men!
The rest of the match was a non-event, some Troquay fans choosing to leave early. Southend could have had more - one foul looked inside the penaly area but was given outside, there was a Southend goal ruled out for off-side, and Jarvis had to head off his own line. Torquay huffed and puffed and tried to get a goal back but were chasing a lost cause with only 10 men. Criuse came on for Bodin. After 4 minutes of added time the final whistle blew to everyones relief. We all had wanted to get home for the last 30 minutes or so.
I hope after today's heavy defeat lessons can be learned paricularly for Martin Ling. The 4-3-3 has NOT worked for much of this season and playing Howe so isolated in attack is no good. We need to have more flair and pace in the team and NOT play Craig wide on the left. Today we got what we have deserved this season and have so far got away with - a good hammering. We need to balance our play and give the opposition something to worry about and that means using more players like Thompson who frightens the opposition. The ultra-defensive line-ups are boring to watch and will see us slipping down the table. There were some nasty warning signs today that we could go on an unpleasant run and find ourselves looking over our shoulders at the bottom teams. Today's first half performance was as bad as anything I've seen from Torquay over the years and that is saying something. The alarm bells should be ringing.
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Post by loyalgull on Nov 17, 2012 19:42:03 GMT
a horror show of a performance,but not unexpected,the team has been declining badly in recent times,christ knows how ling sorts it out.Despite grabbing around 650.000 approx in transfer money,he says again today no money in the pot,well he needs to rummage through the settee pronto and find some farthings,or it will be a long winter
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Dave
TFF member
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Post by Dave on Nov 17, 2012 20:20:25 GMT
Many thanks for all the excellent reports, I know it’s not an easy thing to come home and write a match report when your team has just been thrashed. I’m not surprised Southend put four past Martin Rice, he is a nice lad, but has never been quite good enough to play in league two. I just hope he is not singled out by the fans as it’s a team game and each and everyone out on the pitch need to share any blame.
It’s just another sign of the times and I’m sure Paul Buckle signed him (it was him wasn’t it?) because he had a limited playing budget and wanted to spend in on players out on the park, rather than have to pay the wages of a good proven keeper. Good second keepers have never been the order of the day for a while and I can think back to some games at Plainmoor, where a keeper was not even put on the bench.
As long as your first keeper stays fit there are no problems, but we have seen our first choice keepers in the past, play when they were not really fit to do so as the second keeper was not considered good enough.
I do not know how long Poke is out for, I do know Martin Rice must have had his confidence shattered today, lets hope Martin Ling can pick him up off the floor as we might need him for the next match.
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Post by loyalgull on Nov 17, 2012 20:43:03 GMT
a word on mansell,not at all surprised he got redcarded today,he is wound right up at present,i said he lost his rag last home game.He also swore coming off at half time today,he is frustrated with his and our performances.A big shame as he is a loyal and good player for us,plus a good club captain,maybe a break will sort him out,even though we can ill afford suspensions
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Post by geddingtongull on Nov 17, 2012 22:34:22 GMT
Well we have just got back from our 500 mile round trip and I am at a lost to explain what happened today.
This was not the team that was tearing Barnet apart ten days ago. In fact they didn't look like a team but complete strangers!
Others have commented on the goals and there is little to add.
How we need a player like Tomlin who has both the ability to run at defences and also to score goals.
Mr Ling will need to earn his money and pick this team up for the next match because if he doesn't we could spiral down this league quite easily. Hard games to come.
Very easy to be negative at the moment but I just hope we get back to our winning ways.
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Dave
TFF member
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Post by Dave on Nov 17, 2012 22:52:02 GMT
a word on mansell,not at all surprised he got redcarded today,he is wound right up at present,i said he lost his rag last home game.He also swore coming off at half time today,he is frustrated with his and our performances.A big shame as he is a loyal and good player for us,plus a good club captain,maybe a break will sort him out,even though we can ill afford suspensions The captain needs to be a strong character and be able to drive the other players on, but he also needs a level head. It does sound as if ours has been on the edge the last few games and this sending off was also coming like our thumping today. Why has he been so wound up of late? is he frustrated with his own performance? the team as a whole? or just having to play a system he thinks is not working for the team? I thought the gate was OK today, it was a bit cold and getting near to Christmas, plus the fact we lost our last home game to a team from a lower league. As Justin said, many of the extra fans may have taken advantage of the excellent family ticket, but like him, I fear such a poor performance and result, might make them all think twice about hurrying back to watch another game. Yes we sure have had some good seasons since the day Roberts took us down, seasons that were better then we might have expected. Small clubs like ours can't always keep punching above their weight and maybe this will be a season where we all get brought back down to earth. Martin Ling did a fine job for us last season and maybe his hands are tied far greater than we realize and he simply can't bring in any new players to freshen things up and change them. The problem for him is he did do well last season and fans will want more of the same, failure to deliver and you will soon see some fans starting to call for his head, if they have not done so already. Who would be a football manager, it must be the worst job in the world, a fans hero one minute and the devil the next. He can only work with what he has got, but the big question is, is he getting as much out of the players as is possible. Is the formation he wants the players to play wrong for them due to the abilities they have? I don't know, but one thing I do know is you can't set up the team and play like you are the away team when you are at home. Its not what fans want to see and once the opposition know how you are lining up, they will soon end up playing as if they are the home team. One thing I heard on the radio was we were outdone by the pace of some of the Southend players, not seeing some of the players we do have play, are some really lacking as far as pace is concerned? |
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Post by Ditmar van Nostrilboy on Nov 17, 2012 23:00:00 GMT
One thing I heard on the radio was we were outdone by the pace of some of the Southend players, not seeing some of the players we do have play, are some really lacking as far as pace is concerned? No pace evident till Thompson arrived at half time. |
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