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Post by lambethgull on Dec 13, 2012 23:01:02 GMT
If it's so well known it didn't really need pointing out did it, Joe? There's a reference to it in my post in any case
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 23:22:34 GMT
I suppose not. But you never know there might be someone who's lived a sheltered life in Devon and is unaware of how great an extent 'progressive' thinking and behaviours is changing the face of not only our big cities by small Yorkshire towns as well. Hebden seems to be badly in need of some traditional heterosexual Yorkshireman in the mould of William Hague. Happy Christmas anyway Lambeth
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 7:34:32 GMT
Hebden ain't no Totnes, guys. There's only one Totnes and that's the one with the TQ9 postcode.
Machynlleth is a pretender but it's only tiny and most of the population speak Welsh, which I suspect they use when taking the mickey out of English hippies. Glastonbury is a historic town which has been taken over by charlatans devoted only to parting the gullible from their money. Stroud is nice enough but slightly dull and Hebden is a bit full of itself but less groovy than its neighbour Todmorden in my opinion.
And for all members of the TFF Lesbian Collective, if you want to meet like minded sisters then forget searching the countryside and make your way to Sheffield.
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Post by lambethgull on Dec 14, 2012 10:20:40 GMT
Hebden ain't no Totnes, guys. There's only one Totnes and that's the one with the TQ9 postcode. The two towns are chalk and cheese in most respects - layout, aspect, history, geography, everything. But the vaguely green, liberal left "let's change the world by eating chickpea curries and fair trade coffee" is a common sentiment. The recent "battle against Costa coffee" in Totnes, for example, is something that could have played out in Hebden....let's prove our radical credentials by standing up for petit bourgeois coffee shop owners
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 11:17:12 GMT
Hey, steady on there LG. I like my petit bourgeois coffee and I am certainly not going to patronise the big High Street chains who hammer home their already clear advantage over the little shops by not paying their damn taxes. A pity it was Costa rather than Starbuck's or Caffe Nero that Totnesians ran out of town because that would have been sweeter still.
I'm sure I have eaten a chick pea curry in TQ9 and received the local currency in my change but have never eaten coffee, fairtrade or otherwise, in Totnes or anywhere else. Mind you, a woman in mediaeval dress chastised me for throwing a crumb of my veggie pastie to a pigeon in the market place, and that's definitely summat that tends not to happen elsewhere.
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Post by lambethgull on Dec 14, 2012 13:10:04 GMT
Hey, steady on there LG. I like my petit bourgeois coffee and I am certainly not going to patronise the big High Street chains who hammer home their already clear advantage over the little shops by not paying their damn taxes. A pity it was Costa rather than Starbuck's or Caffe Nero that Totnesians ran out of town because that would have been sweeter still. I'm sure I have eaten a chick pea curry in TQ9 and received the local currency in my change but have never eaten coffee, fairtrade or otherwise, in Totnes or anywhere else. What, you've never had fairtrade organic coffee cake? They even do a vegan version in a place off St George's Square you know I think you'll find the average worker in an independent coffee shop in Hebden Bridge would find better terms and conditions in their local Starbucks in Halifax. That's not to praise Starbucks, just a reminder that workers in independent places are subject to the same social relations as workers in lentil-free outlets. In all honesty, the tax avoidance issue with Starbucks is a bit of a red herring. Watch out for attacks on their employees terms and conditions to make up for any shortfall. The independent Starbuck's workers unions formed in outlets in New York and Chicago are a far more effective means of tackling the issue than relying on independent retailers and 'customer power'. Workers unions in these outlets will become a major industrial force in the coming years.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 18:46:25 GMT
Hebden Bridge, Hardcastle Crags and Heptonstall. Sounds like the Tour de France route to me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 19:28:37 GMT
The "alternative towns"are an intriguing mixture. I love the settings and ambience of Stroud and Hebden Bridge (but can also vouch for neighbouring Todmorden's attractions).
Not sure about Machynlleth - great scenery but there never seems much to it. With all those English hippies I'd probably be agitating for a new Free Wales Army if I was a local.
Glastonbury is tacky and too full of mystical crap for my liking. But the abbey and Tor are wonderful.
Totnes? I guess I see it primarily a quaint old town the other side of the hill from Marldon. It's not been the same since they closed the old bacon factory! I suppose I don't really get the "Totnes thing" although I'm always fascinated by the Dartington story.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 20:10:15 GMT
Hey, steady on there LG. I like my petit bourgeois coffee and I am certainly not going to patronise the big High Street chains who hammer home their already clear advantage over the little shops by not paying their damn taxes. A pity it was Costa rather than Starbuck's or Caffe Nero that Totnesians ran out of town because that would have been sweeter still. I'm sure I have eaten a chick pea curry in TQ9 and received the local currency in my change but have never eaten coffee, fairtrade or otherwise, in Totnes or anywhere else. What, you've never had fairtrade organic coffee cake? They even do a vegan version in a place off St George's Square you know I think you'll find the average worker in an independent coffee shop in Hebden Bridge would find better terms and conditions in their local Starbucks in Halifax. That's not to praise Starbucks, just a reminder that workers in independent places are subject to the same social relations as workers in lentil-free outlets. In all honesty, the tax avoidance issue with Starbucks is a bit of a red herring. Watch out for attacks on their employees terms and conditions to make up for any shortfall. The independent Starbuck's workers unions formed in outlets in New York and Chicago are a far more effective means of tackling the issue than relying on independent retailers and 'customer power'. Workers unions in these outlets will become a major industrial force in the coming years. I was thinking of the workers who harvest the coffee rather than the ones who sell it, as well as all the additional services we could save from the axe if Google, Boots, Cadbury's, Top Shop, Starbucks etc stopped cheating us out of our share of their taxes. Like everyone else who contributes to this forum I don't get the option of not paying my tax; it's deducted at source and I have no say on what it's spent on. WTF should the mega-rich get away with it while the rest of us continue to pay up? I don't share your faith in the power of trade unions, LG. Over the years unions fought for better pay, conditions and safety but they have little power nowadays. If my union (Unison) was any good I wouldn't have had a pay freeze for the last 4 years and some of my colleagues wouldn't be following that freeze up with an actual cut next year. On the other hand, we can all make our protest by opting out of commercialism and refusing to spend money we haven't got on things we don't need from companies who trample on human rights in shops where the workers have no union and are on minimum wage. Of course a few hippies in Totnes are not going to change the world but at least they don't sit on their arses reading the Daily Express, watching the X Factor and complaining about immigrants and benefit claimants. The campaign to save their town from having a corporate coffee company being foisted on it was a great example of citizens coming together to make their voices heard and they actually pulled it off too. Well done, Totnes, I say. The people won, for once, and that makes a very welcome and heartwarming change.
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Post by Dave on Dec 15, 2012 8:07:59 GMT
One if the first decisions I made about how things would happen on the TFF was never locking any thread just because it went so far off topic. Some of the very best threads on the TFF started out on one subject and ended up up on a completely different one, I always have found it amazing where some threads have ended up. Firstly many thanks to Timbo for the two wonderful threads he has started in this room, I so much love seeing photos of places I have not been too or even heard of and learn so much about them. I'm sure our timbo is very happy we started in Holmfirth and ended up in Totnes as that is a place he loves and has many fond memories. I was so glad the people of Totnes prevented Costa from opening there, Totnes is a very special and unique place and needs to be kept that way for as long as possible. Yes we do have a Totnes thread on the TFF ( did you think we would not have one? ) torquayfansforum.com/index.cgi?board=fansphoto&action=display&thread=5593
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2012 9:52:54 GMT
Well, off to Torquay for a spot of shopping and a Costa Coffee, well thats Torquays gain and them mung bean eating beatnicks at totnes's loss Is that the Costa on Union Street, Chelston, or the one inside HMV? When in Torquay, you were more likely to find me in Nero on Fleet Street after a Saturday match. But beforehand, when I used to travel down from Exeter or Taunton, it was often the beach cafe at Corbyn's Head or one of the places at Beacon Quay. Babbacombe cafes also featured a lot - especially the Cliff Railway - and I'll always put in a favourable word for One World next to the tennis courts in front of the ERC. So when I've time - and they're open - I like the individuality of independent cafes. But the convenience and longer opening hours of the Costas and Neros has a place too. And, as for Totnes, I'm afraid convenience and economy often lured me into Morrison's restaurant when I was working up the road at Dartington. Meanwhile Wildebeeste will be disappointed that the former Cream coffee shop at Broomhill in Sheffield is being replaced by a Costa. I wonder how that will affect the custom of the other three cafes within a couple of hundred yards? I liked Cream even though it closed before I'd completed my loyalty card. I like the others too but, if I'm feeling economical, it's the Wetherspoon's down the hill. But not for a breakfast. Not yet anyway. Hmm, come to think of it, I'm in the mood for bacon. Anybody know what badger tastes like? With the cull coming up, I wonder if there is a market? But maybe not in TQ9? Whoops, only joking folks! Before I'm removed from too many Christmas card lists.
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Post by lambethgull on Dec 15, 2012 10:44:58 GMT
Hebden Bridge, Hardcastle Crags and Heptonstall. Sounds like the Tour de France route to me. Indeed, some of the best cycling to be had in the country up there.
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Post by lambethgull on Dec 15, 2012 10:57:30 GMT
I was thinking of the workers who harvest the coffee rather than the ones who sell it, as well as all the additional services we could save from the axe if Google, Boots, Cadbury's, Top Shop, Starbucks etc stopped cheating us out of our share of their taxes. Like everyone else who contributes to this forum I don't get the option of not paying my tax; it's deducted at source and I have no say on what it's spent on. WTF should the mega-rich get away with it while the rest of us continue to pay up? I don't share your faith in the power of trade unions, LG. Over the years unions fought for better pay, conditions and safety but they have little power nowadays. If my union (Unison) was any good I wouldn't have had a pay freeze for the last 4 years and some of my colleagues wouldn't be following that freeze up with an actual cut next year. On the other hand, we can all make our protest by opting out of commercialism and refusing to spend money we haven't got on things we don't need from companies who trample on human rights in shops where the workers have no union and are on minimum wage. Don't be sure that those workers get a great deal; a stamp on a piece of paper or menu is about creating a commodity, not better working conditions. Workers in Africa and Latin America would be better off organising amongst themselves than waiting for liberals in the West to order fairtrade coffee to go in their soya lattes. As in fact many of them do, because one thing you learn living in London is that Spanish and Latin American workers bring their workplace militancy with them. Witness the largely Latin American cleaners who have struck and used direct action to win wage increases and concessions from their bosses, including from'ethically' run John Lewis: iww.org.uk/node/821 and iww.org.uk/node/652It's no coincidence that these victories have been won by an independent union, unaffiliated to the TUC. I share your lack of faith in social democratic trade unions. Not only are they completely unfit to fight for their members' terms and conditions, but that is one of their purposes. State-sanctioned unions in this country are exactly that; a union movement that is linked to one of the political parties that manage capital will never be anything different. An example of the depths an organisation like Unison will sink to can be found here: libcom.org/blog/unison-officials-spy-their-own-activists-ensure-yes-vote-pensions-25082012 Successful workplace organising takes place when workers control their own struggles, and are organised on industrial rather than trade lines. The reason why the RMT is one of the most effective TUC unions is not down to Bob Crow, but because the union has rail drivers, station staff and cleaners amongst its membership. Of equal significance is a well organised and militant rank-and-file that would force the hand of the union's leadership if it didn't back them in their grievances and disputes. So no, Starbucks and precariously employed workers will not achieve gains by waiting for the likes of Frances O'Grady or Ed Milliband to help them out. But they will by organising, taking direct action and taking the fight to their employers, at the point of production.
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Post by chelstongull on Dec 15, 2012 11:57:25 GMT
Well, off to Torquay for a spot of shopping and a Costa Coffee, well thats Torquays gain and them mung bean eating beatnicks at totnes's loss Is that the Costa on Union Street, Chelston, or the one inside HMV? When in Torquay, you were more likely to find me in Nero on Fleet Street after a Saturday match. Tend to use the HMV Barton - thankfully not a hippie in sight either.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2012 11:59:09 GMT
Many a valid point there LG but by the same token it's all very well for people in London to expect workers in Latin America and Africa to organise themselves when the reward for doing so is as likely to be a long stretch in a prison cell or a hastily dug grave as a pay increase.
You are too cynical by far about liberals and their soya lattes. What would you have people do? There ain't going to be a popular worldwide revolution because the workers would be crushed like flies. Your views are no doubt sincerely held and are always entertaining but they are an indulgence. If you believe that the workers in the Third World need to be organised then leave Lambeth behind and take yourself off to Guatemala to take part in the struggle. Otherwise all is bullshit.
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