petef
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Post by petef on Feb 23, 2013 12:41:12 GMT
Got to be realistic here today. Just what do we want or expect from individuals who we all know can perform "on their day". Lets hope today is that day but look at the facts.
Morris who was just starting to show something of quality before his injury has been out for many months and I'm not even sure if he has had any reserve games to sharpen up. Benyon not scored a league goal for a year and hasn't been playing first team football. Macklin been here for years it seems not sure if hes scored in any game for us and has failed for far to long. Jarvis looked bright and improved before his injury but has since gone back into his shell as a genuine threat and just looks a run of the mill player. Bodin has been a little more motivated of late but has yet to get on the score sheet this year and I have never seen a genuine ninety minute performance from him. Rene has been dragged down by the way we set up the side, be that tactics or genuine lack of ability in key areas. The latter is my opinion. Danny has struggled for form and consistency. Nial Thompson is raw and has genuine pace but mysteriously hasn't even made the bench of late and in my eyes is a potential match winner. My main area of concern is the weaknesses we have in the engine room of the side and the lack of creativity in that area. Nathan Craig is the only one with any vision and in all honesty I haven't witnessed to much of that and far to much has been expected of him in that area. Hes still a novice at this level and I'm not sure he has the "steel" to make it in the game.
Defensively we have been surprisingly solid but have shown signs lately that even Downes, Saah and co have wondered what they have to do to win or even draw a game when they look at what support they have in front of them. We have undoubtedly been solid enough but in the process have offered little offered little or no threat going forward. As the saying goes "The best form of defense is attack".
Time to put few of those issues right today though I still don't know what Alan Knill can do to change things in the creativity/threat department but he sure as hell has to set up the side to be more offensive. I don t expect any sort of result today but maybe the lack of expectation will work in our favor - or maybe it wont, adjusting the team set up drastically could be a recipe for a big defeat so he has o mix his footballing beliefs with a little caution at this early stage. One things for sure Knill has to start getting results of any description pretty soon as matches games and points will just fritter away and my big fear is that the damage has been done and the animal just may be to wounded to recover. Have we left it to late?
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Feb 23, 2013 12:57:10 GMT
I hope that the club has invited Lord Clinton of Boulton along as special guest.
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Feb 23, 2013 15:06:51 GMT
Are we playing 3 up front or sticking Jarvis in the "ineffective marginalised wide man" role that Craig had?
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Feb 23, 2013 15:53:32 GMT
Create chances and fail to take them, and promptly concede. I shouldn't be surprised...
Sounded like a positive start but that's the thing - we haven't been "playing" badly in first halves anyway. Our problem has been finishing. And it still is, even though we have these supposed "natural finishers" in the side
Hope Knill is a Churchill and not an IDS
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Feb 23, 2013 17:26:38 GMT
4 points now off the drop
Points 19. TUFC.................37 (Lost today) 20. Aldershot............37 (win today) 21. AFC Wimbledon........35 (win today) 22. Barnet...............34 (Draw today) ---------------------------------------- 23. Accrington...........33 (draw today) 24. Argyle...............32 (Lost today)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 17:54:39 GMT
0-1 was a result any fool could have predicted but this was a vastly better display than at Rochdale last week and we only lost to a jammy deflection. Still no goal to cheer but I personally thought the side looked much more likely to score than I have seen for a while and the team was in better shape too. Two men up front at last! Jarvis played better than I ever seen him before and Benyon was always a threat to Vale. Just my luck though to make my second visit to Plainmoor and find that Darren Purse was in the opposing defence just like last time. Dirty bleeder, he is, and his constant chatting to the ref and linesman does not alter that fact at all.
Brian Saah was magnificent in the Gulls' defence. Unfortunately,however, Danny Leadbitter had a stinker. Vincent had him on toast for pace and the goal originated from Danny being harried off the ball. Even then, though, Loft's shot was going nowhere till it hit whoever it hit and plopped inside the post.We didn't deserve that.
Whatever the naysayers might believe I continue to think that Torquay are too good to go down. This side is neither clueless nor spineless and did not, in my opinion, look second best to today's promotion-chasing opponents.
Still proud to be a Gull, and now owner of a blue and gold scarf, but I realise I can't manage a whole game standing up any longer. My back and feet were killing me by the end so it will be Bristow's Bench on Tuesday night for this old codger.
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petef
Match Room Manager
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Post by petef on Feb 23, 2013 18:08:09 GMT
Marks for performance and application 10 out of 10 I couldn't fault either and we looked to have a far better shape to the team than we have of late, or let me rephrase that the last four or five months. Not enough BIG performances though our two supposed main threats Howe and Bodin were poor when we needed something more from them. Some unexpectedly good performances from Jarvis and Easton both put themselves about and did all they could to salvage something from the game. Mansell's game was full of total commitment but error strewn and lacking any finesse. Benyon was a breath of fresh air and chased and harried all the lost causes but this, for whatever reason for seemed to have the undesirable effect of Howe strolling around waiting for something to happen instead of being his usual pro active self. The first half performance was as good as I have watched from us for months and months without really testing their keeper as much as I would have liked though Howe did have one header well saved and Bodin a free kick turned over the bar but nothing clear cut. Sadly we lost Downes to a pull or something and it wasn't long before Vale took the lead with a fortunate deflected shot that had Poke wrong footed. Bad luck some might say but in all honesty Taylor has been coming out with that excuse for weeks now and in this game you make your own luck and we simply are lacking in areas where we create enough chances where maybe we can grab grab a lucky goal. The second half we kept doing the things that gave us a slim chance to get back in the game but the Vale defense and keeper were solid against our increasingly tiring forward line.We did open them up once or twice Bodin put through clear on goal only to blast wildly over the bar when he should have taken a touch into the box and been more ruthless. It was his last action of the day and Macklin came on to replace him and immediately looked sharper and ready to run at defenders (we need more of this) he actually beat his wide defender and pulled the ball back but it was scrambled away. That sort of play has been so rare we need to encourage our wingers its where the goals, if we do ever score again from open play, have a good chance of coming from. Today I was, at least, entertained something I would suggest I haven't been since the start of the season when the players had no pressure on them unlike now where the situation has nearly spun out of control and may just be irreversible. Today though did give me some encouragement despite us not scoring once again though this the team performance and standard must be maintained and built upon. Sad to say both Devon teams could go out of the division now, who would have thought that back last August?
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keyberrygull
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Post by keyberrygull on Feb 23, 2013 18:12:23 GMT
Another 0 point haul but a much better performance Believe what you want, today we were unfortunate not to get something from this game. And as for the ref- ignoring the several penalty claims waved aside - Prancing around like he owned the place and far to noticeable For me. Fellow official Mike Malarky must have been embarrassed looking on. I hope he is disappointed with his performance, but as an FA employee he wont give a toss. Bring back the coppers and Headmasters I say. In my opinion they were a whole lot better, well respected and held to account far more often. Bring on Tuesday. MASSIVE!
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Post by Swanny on Feb 23, 2013 18:26:35 GMT
This was a much more positive performance by the Gulls today but sadly a very familiar scoreline. Another nil scored and nil points from interim manager's Knill first game in charge. But there is hope. It was refreshing to see an outright 4-4-2 played today, the first half in particular was the best performance I've seen in quite a while. I felt many players were playing for the first time in ages with their shackles off and gave good accounts of themselves. Today Torquay were beaten by a heavily deflected goal when we were on top and as we all know this sort of thing goes against the struggling team and in favour of the form team. Probably last season we would have won by a deflected goal. Crowd 2,679, 670 from Port Vale, sponsors MOTM deservedly going to the commanding Saah at the back.
At a freezing Plainmoor Knill made his first appearnance as manager and had a warm applause before the match. It was refreshing change to see a manager much more proactive during the match. Knill stood outside the dug-out and was a lot more animated shouting orders and arm waving. A few times players ran up to him when the ball was out of play to receive orders. It was good to see more passion from the dug-out as laid-back Ling tends to stand there with his arms folded and not say much. Likewise there was a lot more passion on the pitch and Torquay from the start took the game to Pot Vale and you would have thought Torquay were the team near the top. With Benyon playing up front with Howe there seemed more options in attack and Bodin and Jarvis on the left and right wings respectively linked play well and looked threatening. On 5 minutes a Nicholson cross was headed by Howe into the bottom corner of the goal but was superbly saved by their keeper. Later a bodin free-kick was just tipped over by the keeper. Downes went off injured with a pulled hamstring and was replaced by MacDonald. On 26 minutes Leadbitter ran into trouble about 30 yards out and lost the ball. Port Vale shot from distance, there was a wicked deflection off one of their players and the ball agonizingly crept in. Torquay remianed the better team for the first half and still pressed well but half-time that familiar scoreline 0-1.
Buoyed by their fortunate lead, Port Vale were stronger in the second half and it was a pretty even half. As the game got stretched the game became quite end-to-end. Poke had to pull off a couple of smart diving saves to keep Torquay in the game. The longer the game went on the less likely Torquay looked like scoring. Bodin summed up his lack of confidence in front of goal. Following a good breakaway Bodin was clear on the left about 25 yards out. He had time to control the ball and take it towards goal. Instead he opted to hit it first time off target - a real waste. Macklin replaced Bodin on the left wing on 68 minutes and later swapped wings with Jarvis. Macklin at times looked a threat and once got to the byline and cut the ball back but as usual we could not finish. Personally I would have brought on Thompson for Jarvis but no more subs were made. Port Vale should have scored when clean through but sliced his shot badly wide. Torquay pressed to the end but there was no breakthough and to be frank in the second half did not look like scoring.
An improved performance, a more attacking line-up. I thought Benyon did well in attack and it was almost like he's never been away. He does put himself around well chasing everything and has decent pace. Benyon had a couple of efforts on goal but did not connect as well as he might. Howe by his standards I thought was a little disappointing. Jarvis and Bodin had their good moments and some frustrating moments but there was plenty of endeavor. Mansell was Mansell getting well stuck in and giving his all. It was good to see him getting into some dangerous positions. It's a bit strange Craig was agian left out of the squad as a midfield playmaker surely would have been useful. As I said earlier in this thread it will take a while for Knill to "turn the tanker around" and the question is, will he have enough time? Games are starting to run out as our slide continues.
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Post by Ditmar van Nostrilboy on Feb 23, 2013 18:47:16 GMT
Not much to add to Pete and the Beeste really. We looked vastly improved from the last couple of months and matched Vale (who are second lets not forget) pretty much all over the pitch.
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Post by loyalgull on Feb 23, 2013 19:40:32 GMT
no rose tinted specs for me,6 losses on the trot is relegation form,he either gets some quality in or hopes this bunch can win 5 games,which aint going to happen
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Post by frankfurt gull on Feb 23, 2013 20:07:37 GMT
4 points now off the drop Points 19. TUFC.................37 (Lost today) 20. Aldershot............37 (win today)21. AFC Wimbledon........35 (win today)22. Barnet...............34 (Draw today)---------------------------------------- 23. Accrington...........33 (draw today)24. Argyle...............32 (Lost today) Very worrying, an encouraging display today but I think swangull got it right - is there time to turn the tanker? A glance at the remaining fixtures gives me a very uneasy feeling!
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Post by SwannyJnr on Feb 23, 2013 21:02:30 GMT
Michael Poke 8/10 Typical solid game from Pokey could not do anything with goal. Good 2 stops in the second half
Daniel Leadbitter 6/10 Not as good as we have seen from him recently with some poor crosses. It's hard to be harsh on him, he definitely has potential.
Brian Saah 9 As usual a complete rock at the back. Deservedly man of the match
Angus MacDdonald 6 Ok performance quite solid a few swipes let him down.
Kevin Nicholson 7 Good performance from Nicholson, he put a few average performances behind him.
Billy Bodin 6 Good first half performance but sadly he was disappointing in the second half. Had a golden chance and skied it. 4 goals this season sadly is not good enough.
Lee Mansell 7 Looked confident going forward, a few mistakes but still shows why he is our captain
Craig Easton 6 Good defensively but doesn't add much going forward I'm afraid.
Ryan Jarvis 7 Good performance by Jarvis, looked good going forward, a few lightweight moments and sometimes I think he forgot he was right wing, but well done.
Elliot Benyon 8 Didn't get the service he needed but did his job of making a nuisance of himself perfectly.
Rene Howe 6 I'm still one of his best fans but I'm afraid in the second half he just wasn't really there. He didn't seem to be putting himself around much. Good header in the first half saying that though.
Lloyd Mackiln sub. 7 Did not have much service but made one brilliant run, he showed why he has a 93 Fifa acceleration statistic.
Arron Downes N/A This is a nightmare if he is out for a couple games. Would the shot for the deflected goal have been closed down if he was on the pitch?
Alan Knill 8 Good to see a passionate manager, he was shouting orders from the bench and in his post match interview he sounds like a true manager. Only downside only bringing 1 sub on and of course we lost
Ref 4 Don't get me started, he was not up to the job, whether it was handballs or clear fouls. The worst thing is if we get relegated the refereeing standards will get even worse
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 21:22:43 GMT
4 points now off the drop Points 19. TUFC.................37 (Lost today) 20. Aldershot............37 (win today)21. AFC Wimbledon........35 (win today)22. Barnet...............34 (Draw today)---------------------------------------- 23. Accrington...........33 (draw today)24. Argyle...............32 (Lost today) To be fair, though, it's really 5 points because our goal difference is superior to all our rivals since we keep losing by one goal. This list should also really include Bristol Rovers and York City on 39 points, and we have a game in hand on both York and Aldershot. That 6 successive defeats is relegation form is bleeding obvious but as long as that run doesn't stretch to 7 or 8 we can still put some daylight between ourselves and the bottom 4. In any event, this evening is no time for negativity. We have our new manager, we played a different and more positive way today, we made the goalkeeper pull off a couple of good saves and might have had a penalty or two. Port Vale are one of the two strongest sides in the division (and possibly the most cynical, it must be said) so if we can match today's performance against the poor to average teams we should pick up the points we need for safety without too many problems. Not saying I'm not worried at all but even after those 6 defeats (all except one by the odd goal) all those sides below us this evening are still nearer to the dreaded drop than we are. Do Accrington, Argyle, Wimbledon and York possess better players than Torquay? I don't think so.
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Feb 23, 2013 21:53:14 GMT
In situations like this, though, you can't judge players on reputation or reputed potential. You have to judge them on how they do out there. and the fact is those teams are picking up results and we aren't. Players are as good as their results in an objective sense
For me (from what I've seen in the matches I've been to) there are a couple of players who have been out there week in week out on reputation alone, despite consistently not performing, and I'm disappointed (but not surprised) that the manager hasn't changed this. I'm disappointed the team remained relatively unchanged, and I'm disappointed that Nathan Craig has vanished off the face of the Earth all of a sudden - if the rumours are true about him falling out with Taylor because he wanted to be played in his best position instead of in a position he is clearly not suited to, that is absolutely farcical; if he goes in the summer along with the other players whose contracts are set to expire (I'm thinking Saah, Downes and Howe in particular), we are in serious trouble, because he is the future of this club
As everyone has said, we did play "well" in the sense that we dominated the game - we had about 65-70% possession in the first quarter. But then the stats switched around completely from then until about halfway through the second half - by then it was more like about 60% to Port Vale, which indicates that their possession over that time must have been higher than 60% to reverse that; they also ended the match with more shots than us (which is a kind of moot stat but it's there). All in all, in an objective sense, it seems to me that it was probably quite an even game, and that the reaction of partisan fans (particularly at Dot Net where everyone lurches from "we're DOOOMED" to "we're going to make the play-offs" every week) are a result of us playing better than usual, rather than being particularly outstanding on a League Two level
As well as that, the fact is we didn't score again. If I had a pound for every time I've heard or seen "if we keep playing like this, we won't go down" this season, I'd have enough to pay for my PhD. I keep hearing it and yet our form remains dreadful - 6 defeats in a row, 1 win in the last 13, 3 wins in the last 19. The fact is that despite all these "good" performances, we're still down the bottom. Ultimately, surely scoring goals and not conceding goals has to be a major part of playing well, and we've not done that
I do think we'll avoid relegation. I've never felt that we're doomed, even after hearing about some of our worst performances. I think we'll scab a lucky goal in the next match or 2 and then we'll not have too much trouble. But the fact that it's got this close shouldn't be ignored if we do get out of it
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