Why was Torquay United formed?

Plenty of marvellous material on this thread thanks to Jon. The list of Torquay & District League clubs is particularly impressive. It's almost as if this is the appendix for a work in progress: "1903: a secret history of the South Devon League". Strictly unauthorised of course.

The list confirms that there were other "town" clubs knocking around in the early days: Cockington; GPO; YMCA; Torwood. That's the pack from which Babbacombe, Ellacombe and Torquay United appear to have emerged. Were there others?

1903 is an important date because this is when there was enough interest in the town to form a local league. But what if everything had progressed slightly more quickly so that this became the time when the bigger clubs sought amalgamation? That, in effect, is what happened in Exeter with the formation of City in 1904. By 1908 they were in the Southern League; by 1920 the Football League. Could an earlier Torquay Town have followed suit?

In actuality, as Jon implies, the 1908-1910 period is significant as that is when Ellacombe and Babbacombe seem to have upped the ante. Whilst the Wiki articles do not mention the two clubs playing in other leagues during this period, the centenary history - upon closer reading - clearly does and infers that Torquay United were effectively playing the reserve sides of Ellacombe and Babbacombe. There's also a footnote about some of United's team preferring to watch Babbacombe v Argyle rather than play a game.

The suggestion here, if I'm correct, is that Torquay United would have been third in the local hierarchy in 1910. Would this be a fair summary? And, if so, who were the top dogs?

The other question that begs is the one opposite to the one previously asked of the implications of Babbacombe "opting out" of a progressive move in 1921. What if Babbacombe had "opted in" to a three-way merger in 1910?

We can't be too sure. Torquay Town (especially) and Babbacombe had their moments in the Plymouth & District League after 1910. A stronger club might have pushed aside some of the Plymouth and Cornish clubs. But its' path may have still been blocked by the military sides and the reserves of Plymouth Argyle and Exeter City. And, even if we make the assumption that everything might have been in place for a higher level of football by (say) 1914, the Great War would have intervened. Consequently Babbacombe's disinclination in 1910 may not have mattered too much in the long-run.

That is aside from the name of our club. I'm guessing that a three-way amalgamation in 1910 would still have resulted in a club called Torquay Town. With no further clubs to absorb there would then have been no obvious cause to change the identity in future. Maybe we've discussed this before but, again, it's always worth reflecting on those little moments of history and the ifs, whats and maybes.

If there's a book in the offing I shall try to make it along to one of those author book-signings they have in bookshops.

We discussed football in Babbacombe at some length on here in January 2009. Mention was made then of Babbacombe playing at the Palk Arms but I don't think we ever considered the precise location of the pitch.

Now there were once various Palk Arms around South Devon so I assume we're talking about the one on Teignmouth Road. If that's the case, I first imagined the ground to be immediately behind the pub in the angle of Fore Street and Lummaton Place. I've seen sight of a reasonably contemporary map and that area is shown as an orchard. That, of course, could have been cleared but I've memory of the lie of the land being rather awkward.

I can't believe the ground to have been in front of the pub because the land slopes steeply there in the direction of St Marychurch. So, if it were the other side of Teignmouth Road, the pitch could have been on land that is now part of the golf course. This, in the 1900s, would have placed it adjacent to the former horse racing track.

A third possibility is that Babbacombe may have played within the triangle now formed by Teignmouth Road, Fore Street and Pavor Road. On a map I've seen there's a rectangular piece of land running parallel with the present Pavor Road.

As for the T&D listings, I note Torquay United (2) playing from 1910 to 1914. I'm getting confused. Are these the boys from Daddyhole Plain that Jon may have mentioned before? Was 1914 the end of their efforts? Another "what if?" regards the possibility of that club monopolising the Torquay United name up to 1921 and beyond. Town in the Football League; United in the South Devon League?

Torquay Amateurs is a grand name and concept. Did they just have that one season before the war or did they continue afterwards? Indeed what of the pre-eminent town clubs of the 1920s and 1930s. Or is that for volume two?

I have always thought that this was where it was.

Link to history of Torquay Golf Club here:

www.torquaygolfclub.co.uk/club/history/

The company that constructed the course at Petitor was formed in 1909.

The club house was opened in May 1911.

These dates would appear to tie in with Babbacombe being kicked off the Palk Arms ground at the end of the 1909/10 season and moving to Plainmoor.

Funnily enough, the original golf course was at Walls Hill where the Babbacombe club started out - explaining their early dalliance with the name Babbacombe Caddies.

Nice round-up by Half Back there.

All we are saying is "give us a minor".

Sorry - don't think I answered this one.

Yes that Torquay United is the team that played at Daddyhole Plain. There is a picture of the team (c.1912) in the corridor at Plainmoor.

As far as I can tell, the club did not reform after the 1914-18 War.