rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Aug 4, 2013 19:46:18 GMT
James, I think most supporters will look to the positive because that is what we want, doesn't mean we will get it and economically shouldn't expect promotion but occasionally it happens! The Wimbledon manager conceded that a draw was a fair result in his post match comments so think you are being overly critical of that performance. Of course, we don't know how well Wimbledon will do this season so the relativity of the result remains undetermined. Opinion is subjective I know but I think you are focusing on the negative when no one really knows how things are going to pan out yet.....
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Post by stuartB on Aug 4, 2013 20:25:07 GMT
Then naff off and give your undeserved "support" to some other team? bit OTT don't you think?? I saw the game differently to James and we spent most of the post match meeting in The Union disagreeing but he is entitled to his opinion and this club needs as many supporter as they can muster |
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Aug 4, 2013 20:41:13 GMT
JamesB Distinctly average is probably a fair assessment, if not a little on the generous side. What I'm not sure about is how big a concern being 'distinctly average' is just 90 minutes into the new season. Admittedly if the other 22 home league games were going to be fairly similar to this one then I wouldn't be overly concerned about missing most of them, but for the moment I'll put my faith in the contentious 'gel' factor  . If I think back to the opening home game of last season we played beautiful flowing attacking football. The passing was of a quality Barcelona or Real Madrid could only dream about (maybe a teeny bit of exaggeration there), the understanding between Bodin and Howe was telepathic and their slick one-two's were a joy to witness. That 2-2 draw with Cheltenham was one of the best quality games of football I've ever seen at Plainmoor. In the next home game, if I remember correctly we demolished Rochdale 4-2 despite us going down to 10 men for the latter section of the match. But a lot of those players entered the final game of the season with the threat of relegation hanging over their heads, so if it's possible for a team to 'un-gel' to the extent that they could play like world beaters when I saw them in the opening weeks, yet disintegrated to the level that they looked as though a Sunday league side could give them a run for their money by February or March, then for the moment I'm believing it can work both ways and a shaky start could therefore be improved upon and lead to a strong finish. Having said that there a large number of Plainmoor regulars and Forum posters who publicaly nailed their colours to the mast and backed the sacking of Ling for 'football reasons'. Emphasising that they didn't wish to watch Ling style football, but did have an overwhelming desire to watch Knill style football. Whatever the evidence early on, there's no way those people will admit to having to eat their words this early on. For the moment at least a performance that would have been castigated if Ling were manager will be quietly accepted with Knill as manager. If the worst happens, and the promised land of fast attacking football with skillful wingers, and Benyon regularly getting on the score sheet doesn't materialize, then you will see a gradual climb down from the 'Ling Out-Knill In' advocates, as they subtly change their position and put some distance between themselves and comments they may have made in April or May of this year. You have to really love the new wife if you're willing to put yourself and others through a particularly messy and bitter divorce to get rid of the old one. So for the moment you have no choice other than to tell everyone you couldn't be happier with the new partner even if you might have secretly started harbouring one or two small doubts. I know it's rubbish logic, but a few early poor performances won't unduly worry me, solely because I hated what last seasons superb early season football eventually lead on to. If we get Poster of the Month going again, this is a good candidate for the best post I was ocnsidering the point about the managers myself - not necessarily Ling, though. If that performance had occurred under Taylor - lacking ideas, simplistic play, bringing Niall Thompson on for our right-back - the fans would definitely not have reacted the same way. Knill has sweetened the fans up well by saying the things they want to hear. But I'm still firmly in the sceptic camp - I'm not going to call for him to go any time soon but I just don't get the appeal That's not necessarily saying that it's the "wrong" way to play, as there's no such thing. Pulis' Stoke have done well over the last few years by playing in a similar way to how we played yesterday - no, not hoofing it up to a big man as is the common misconception, but knocking it long to the two quick, skilful wingers and getting them to cross it into the box (at least until Etherington got injured and Pennant was dropped). You could see this yesterday - Rice's distribution is very good and a few times he aimed his kicks straight for Bodin and Cameron The difference is Stoke have big, bruising defenders, a tough midfield, and a couple of talented big men in the middle - we have at least 1 weak spot in the defence, a centre-midfield pairing that isn't particularly adept at tackling, and 1 big striker who doesn't seem to be very good in the air. People banged on last year about how Ling needed to change his style to fit the players rather than the other way around... If it was up to me, I'd go with Lathrope and Harding in the middle, Cruise at left-back, and two from Yeoman, Hawley and Ball up front. Will that happen? We'll see if Knill is willing to make the sort of changes that Ling shied away from when it mattered |
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Aug 4, 2013 20:54:02 GMT
Oops, meant to relaunch it yesterday, will sort that out now!
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Aug 4, 2013 21:00:53 GMT
Gawd - why don't you join up with Brucie Gobtrotter on the other site! One game has taken place and your negativity cannot be taken seriously at least until 10 games have passed (after which I suspect you will be proved wrong)! My advice would be to not feed the Brucie who is a completely different kettle of fish to James. |
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petef
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Post by petef on Aug 4, 2013 22:05:55 GMT
Yep Keep it coming James it would be a boring old world and "fans" forum if we all had the same opinion. I do see where your coming from and I am also certain that the manager will change it when he feels he needs to but first he has to test every player in a competitive situation to find out his best formation and options.
I bet the team we watched yesterday doesn't resemble the one we see at Christmas.
Oh and an excellent well thought out post Alpine.
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Post by lambrettagull on Aug 5, 2013 15:34:19 GMT
I`ve read lots of opinions about the opening game and although I was not there I feel really disappointed. It seems the same old, same old. Benyon doesn`t score, we let a goal in in the last few minutes and we do not beat a team we should be looking to take 3 points off at home in order to stay in this league. There has been nearly a complete change of personnel, but the same old problems are there. Perhaps all the hype re Knill and Brass taking over gave me false hopes, but its just as if nothing has changed. Who says to an incoming footballer, you are playing for Torquay now, so you must let the opposition score in the last 10 minutes (rhetorical). Knill is supposed to be a step up from Ling, but if he thinks Benyon is a first choice striker, we will be fighting relegation again. We should all know about Benyon, so theres no need to go over it all again. What is the point of having Ball for 2 months? As soon as hes bedded in, hes off somewhere else. Then what? Start the bedding in process all over again? Either Knill knows something or this is senseless.Dont want to be branded negative (you can if you want!)but things just dont add up in my mind. Wimbledon had more players making their debut than we did, so theres no excuse there. Not sure if I need logic or a few pints re this. Tuesday will be an interesting game to help bring some clarity to this, although granted it is just early days. I know, wait 10 games in, then get a better picture, we`ll see.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Aug 5, 2013 23:21:04 GMT
I think the level of people's disappointment or otherwise is probably decided by the reasonableness of their expectations.
If you expect to look out from Plainmoor's Popside and see the Sydney Opera House, the Hanging Gardens of Babylon or herds of wildebeest, then you are in for a letdown.
Did I EXPECT Alan Knill to put together a top 7 team on a bottom 7 budget? No.
The question was whether we have spent our limited resources sensibly and come up with a competitive squad or "cocked up" and facing probable relegation.
Looks more the former than the latter to me.
Am I outraged that we haven't signed up all the best players in League 2 so that we can expect automatic promotion? No.
The team did look a "work in progress". Benyon and Ball had hardly met before the game. The centre backs had played 45 minutes together at Salisbury.
Will understanding between players improve? I hope so.
Potential is what it says - potential. Tonge and Harding are decent solid League 2 pros. In 2 or 3 years, they will still be decent League 2 pros. Where will Pearce and Cameron be in 2 or 3 years? I haven't a clue, but they have the potential to play higher and the potential to play lower.
Why take a risk if we aren't sure? Because we can't afford to buy the finished article. Developing players has to be a big part of the way forward for a club like ours.
Pearce got wrong side of his attacker and "under the ball" a few times. But he has tremendous physique, he's quick and he's good on the ball. If he had those attributes and had already ironed the flaws out of his game, he wouldn't be here.
I liked Ball. He's big but not a "hoof to the donkey" type player. I think he will fit in and lead the line well.
I think Alan Knill has done well on recruitment, taking on board our spending power. It got a bit "squeeky bum" last week but I think the strategy of waiting has brought better value for money than we would have got if we had jumped early. The downside is that we are a couple of weeks behind schedule in bedding the team down.
Will we finish higher than my "expected" 17th or 18th? I hope so - but it is too early to tell.
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simonb
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Post by simonb on Aug 6, 2013 6:12:10 GMT
Good post Jon. We need to continue to build on what we have and look at things in the longer run!
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Post by hullgull on Aug 6, 2013 6:32:08 GMT
Hi and good morning,just back from Paignton,had a great afternoon at the game,a few in boots before the game....enjoyed the game,,,,obviously lots of room for improvement,but on the whole when we gel and get used to each other,am positive we are going to have a good season.....I do like the look of Pearce he looked composed....and Chappell looked sharp when he came on.......need some bite in midfield though,,,,,foundations are there for a good season.......was good to meet a few of you.......si
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Aug 6, 2013 11:22:26 GMT
I think the level of people's disappointment or otherwise is probably decided by the reasonableness of their expectations. Depends. I think the people (elsewhere) who were saying after that performance that we could make a run for the play-offs are the people who were saying that before the match. Meanwhile, I've predicted us to finish 20th this season (though I decided that before we signed Hawley and Ball) Rather than being disappointed because you expected better or vice versa, I'm thinking it's more a case of people using it to justify whatever opinions they had beforehand |
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Aug 6, 2013 12:04:04 GMT
Just struggling with the point you're making? Are you saying that the match Hasn't really changed anyone's expectations (in the main) as it was an inconclusive pointer to the season as a whole?
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Aug 6, 2013 18:34:12 GMT
Sort of. Jon was suggesting that people who had high expectations would have been disappointed and those with low expectations would have been pleased, but reading around, that's not what I can see from Torquay fans - if anything, those with high expectations have been pleased. Fans have been picking and choosing from the game what they wanted to justify the opinion they already had - i.e. those who thought before Saturday that we were going to make the play-offs have picked out all the good things from the game to justify that opinion, ignoring all the deficiencies in the performance. It's confirmation bias: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Aug 6, 2013 18:52:07 GMT
Sort of. Jon was suggesting that people who had high expectations would have been disappointed and those with low expectations would have been pleased I said that because you were extremely disappointed that we were average. I wasn't extremely disappointed that we were average. I was expecting us to be average whereas, by definition, you must have expected us to be a lot better than average because you were disappointed at our being average QED. |
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Aug 6, 2013 19:29:08 GMT
Confirmation bias, indeed. Unfortunately, I won't be seeing us for a few weeks, but fully expect Pearce, Ball and Harding to dominate proceedings when I do.
The brucie comparison unduly harsh, mind. He is spouting on tonight, after the defeat at Swindon, that we also never looked like scoring on Saturday. Pretty sure we actually did score.
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