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Post by loyalgull on Oct 26, 2014 17:11:38 GMT
I don't know why but I can't create a new thread. Anyhow, I have to say I don't think I have ever been so annoyed about the Luke Young incident at Home Park where he did the half time draw. I have never heard the likes of it before. Why wasn't he at Aldershot for a start? Didn't the club know? Who authorised it? In 52 years of loyal support I am absolutely amazed at this monumental faux pas. With the two subs sitting in the dug out at half time and the needless bookings and sendings off we have amassed makes me think there is a serious discipline and attitude problem at this club. Can Mr. Candy offer any plausible explanation about these events. It may seem minor to some but I am really angry about this and seriously considering going less often. I show loyalty, if the players can't even be bothered to show respect to their fans and their employers why should we turn up. I feel sorry for the fans who went to Aldershot. I never thought my faith in Torquay United would be dented to an extent where I would contemplate not going to home games but it has now. we discussed the subs sitting on the bench at half time of the game,we were stunned,never seen that before at any level.But sadly the powers to be seem to think all is rosey.Well it isnt,it showed as if nobody gave a fig,maybe they dont.After over 40 odd years of ardent support,many like myself are getting fed up with the downward direction the club is going,couple that with this years losses,a figure i do know, well very worried for us as a club.I see CH has been spouting about luke young not leaving unless big money is involved,christ he is about the only quality player we have got left.That wonderful wembley promotion win was a false dawn i am afraid,in 60 short months its become a near disaster |
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Post by hullgull on Oct 26, 2014 19:32:21 GMT
as much as I am a fan of young as a player......if true he was at another game watching......I personally wouldn't play the guy again This is rather harsh. It would only make sense if the player has defied the club in not travelling to Aldershot; neglected to inform the club of his visit to Argyle (if contractually obliged to do so) or has been deceitful in his actions. Other than that, I'd be surprised if any football club would either deem this to be a disciplinary matter or to put a block upon it happening. Football clubs, in their relationships with each other, cannot afford to go about their business in the way we do ours. I'm not aggrieved by this episode but it does strike me as rather clumsy. If Luke Young was long-term injured, and we were playing at Gateshead yesterday, it wouldn't have been worth a comment. But because (a) he was suspended and (b) we were playing relatively close to home it inevitably draws attention. If he's done it without the club's awareness, that makes it interesting. But still not necessarily a problem unless there is deviousness on the player's behalf. A possible angle, of course, is that he was only invited to make the draw after arriving at Home Park. Text Chris Hargreaves for permission at 3pm? I think not. The question, of course, arises as to why Luke Young wasn't at Aldershot yesterday. Did he specifically ask permission not to travel or did the club automatically not ask him to attend on the simple grounds that he wasn't available for selection? Further to that we may each have our own ideas about what constitutes captain's responsibility in football. Ultimately I guess that varies between managers, clubs and circumstances. The concern, as I say, is the clumsiness of the matter which, who knows, could backfire on Luke Young. I sense the explanation is innocent; whether it's quite the thing to be seen doing is open to conjecture. A lesson to be learned perhaps? I sense that, from now on, everything may depend on how far this story goes. It may remain purely an Internet sensation which passes by many of our supporters; the type of tale you have to explain to the person next to you at the subsequent home game. Or the tale gets into the media; the club and player make statements. It's either going to quickly die; come to a simple resolution; or fester. But it'll not cause me to vent my spleen. Hey Barton.....no I don't think it's harsh in any way.......ok we don't know the full story.....maybe he did have permission...we may never know......but if he didn't now that's different matter......maybe I am jumping to conclusions Barton.....but no player no matter good,is bigger than the club......rant over......lol......si |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 19:54:07 GMT
Hey Barton.....no I don't think it's harsh in any way.......ok we don't know the full story.....maybe he did have permission...we may never know......but if he didn't now that's different matter......maybe I am jumping to conclusions Barton.....but no player no matter good,is bigger than the club......rant over......lol......si Si, you've hit the nail on the head by saying that we don't know the full story. This could be anything from the player being economical with the truth - so that he could enjoy the full weight of Argyle's hospitality on the quiet rather than "endure" a trip to Aldershot - to a courteous approach that has been made by Plymouth Argyle direct to Torquay United. Or something in the middle. At the moment the fact that we know nothing is everything. You've given an honest and polite opinion. Unfortunately one or two other people have made their minds up in rather obnoxious fashion through other forms of social media. From my visits to Home Park I know that the halftime draw is often made by an ex-Argyle player. This may weaken my supposition that the invitation was only forthcoming after Luke Young's arrival at the ground. I once saw Chris Hargreaves perform the honours. But I can't for the life of me remember what he might otherwise have been doing that day. |
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Oct 26, 2014 20:04:40 GMT
I don't think Youngy went AWOL and must have had Hargreaves's blessing, which I find all the more harder to come to grips with. He's the Captain and should have been there <<full stop>>.
Due to other Welsh committments it was the first game for many, many years that I didn't know the result until I got to Taunton Deane at 1715*, having listened to the second half of the Newport Accy game.
May be missing the Gateshead home game due to University checking in London.
Not sure why, but this season is one of the most important for United for years (x10).
* Not saying that Taunton Deane is important results wise.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 21:04:20 GMT
Not saying that Taunton Deane is important results wise. It is if you're trying to get back to Chelston. Leigh Delamere would have been a much poorer result after setting off from Newport. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 21:04:21 GMT
I think it's perfectly valid for different views to be expressed on this one and don't think there's a definitive right or wrong. A reasonable case can be made for insisting that a suspended player attends matches while he's unavailable to play. Trying to put myself in Josh Wakefield's shoes, as a young player who has started very few games at this level and who was being asked to take the place in midfield of the teams outstanding player so far this season, then personally I'm sure I'd prefer it if Young wasn't brought along for the ride. My view is that Young's presence would be a constant reminder to the team of what they'd be missing in the forthcoming match and could detract from them focussing on those who would be playing.
To make a rather over the top comparison, if I was Barcelona manager, and Lionel Messi was suspended, I'd hope that out of sight might also be out of mind, and so wouldn't take Lionel along to cheer on the lads just in case his presence was actually counter productive in never letting the group forget for a minute who wouldn't be playing.
With Young having been at Home Park since about the age of 12, I'm sure he knows the man on the gate, the programme sellers, and everyone else. It was a rare chance that he could look in on old friends, and a match day is when they'd all be there.
We've benefitted hugely by being able to pick up Young for nothing from Argyle. Not only in terms of what he's already brought to the team, but he should also bring in a few much needed pounds should the time come to sell him. The finances at Plainmoor clearly aren't to healthy, going straight out of the Cup is a blow we could have done without, and attracting players down to this part of the world, particularly given the level of wages we can afford to pay may mean it gets increasingly difficult.
We're in no position to be choosey, and good quality Plymouth cast offs who would rather not leave the South West, are something we can hope to benefit from again in future if we maintain reasonable relations with Argyle. If a suspended Kevin Nicholson turned up to do the half time draw at Plainmoor, I'd hope Kidderminster fans wouldn't take it as a personal slight. However, that's a separate issue from those who wish to see suspended players travelling with their team and I understand that point of view, even if I don't always think it would be beneficial.
One person who surely does come out with a lot of credit from yesterday is John Sheridan. The local media in general have been attempting for months to use Luke Young's great form for us as something to beat Sheridan over the head with. Post match questions, via radio and press to Chris Hargreaves have often been thinly disguised attempts to goad Chris into gloating at our good fortune in acquiring Young, and by implication criticising Sheridan's judgement.
To their credit neither Hargreaves or Sheridan have taken the bait. Just suppose Argyle had been two nil down at half time yesterday. Young's presence might only have reminded the crowd of the good player they'd let leave to join a club just up the road, and Sheridan would have spent the second half being loudly reminded of it no doubt. That Sheridan presumably didn't object to this in order to save himself from potential embarrassment is admirable.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 21:17:00 GMT
Not sure why, but this season is one of the most important for United for years (x10). That's an interesting thought. I'd like to say this is a vital year for re-establishing our credentials regarding a return to the Football League. But, as much as I'm loathed to say it, I'm inclined to accept it's more likely to be a case of not slipping any further. It may have been different if heaps of investment arrived on the scene in the summer. That would have been perfectly timed as in 2007. But how many years of, er, "consolidation" can you have? Early days but it could be yet another one, for instance, for Lincoln City. The trick, I guess, is to ensure that not too many of the supporters bugger off never to return. I sense the largest event on the horizon is the possibility of the club changing hands at some stage between 2015 and 2018. I'm hedging my bets with such a wide range of dates but, reading the tea leaves - and doing the arithmetic of that being between eight and eleven years post-Bateson - it doesn't appear too far-fetched in terms of football's business cycles. The question would be whether it results in the club upsizing, remaining on its present keel or shrinking to become a semi-professional outfit. Of these possibilities, it's obvious as to which we'd prefer. My concern is that such an option - having been on the table in 1990, 2007 and previously - may never again be available at a club which has had a couple of goes in the Football League. I fear that the second, recent failure will mitigate against us when it comes to careful investors. Is anyone on here having any joy getting one of those fancy consortiums together? A mixture of sensible and insensible types may help provided they've got money. Mind you, I was hoping that one of our number's visit to Iceland (not the shop) might have resulted in positive developments by now. The Keflavik Connection, salted by a keen sense of the club's history, would have been bang on the money. |
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Post by JamesB on Oct 26, 2014 22:07:35 GMT
I should clarify - it doesn't bother me that Young was at Argyle in particular. He could've been at Willand Rovers cheering them on against Gosport for all I care. The point is that he wasn't with the team
The whole role of the captain on the pitch is probably overestimated by fans and the media. But that doesn't mean that it's not important, especially considering the capacity of the club captain off the pitch - Wayne Rooney was at Old Trafford today despite being suspended, for instance. That's why I retain a small amount of hope that we deliberately sent Young to Home Park to promote us to Argyle fans - I don't think that was the case (for one it's not the first time Young's been back to Argyle in recent weeks), nor do I think it's even that great an idea, but it's something to cling to because it would only be unprofessional on the club's part as opposed to the player's
I have a feeling that if Argyle may might come back in for Young next summer regardless of whether or not they get promoted. He's popular there and clearly loves the club. It just depends on whether they want to fork out a bit more. Perhaps they saw the whole thing as a glorified loan deal
In any case, I'll probably go and see Argyle play instead of us in a couple of weeks when they're up here for the JPT
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Oct 26, 2014 22:09:39 GMT
We're in no position to be choosey,
No one is being choosey, Young should have been there at Aldershot*. Not sure why Hargreaves gave him the chit to stay away - can only assume that he (Hargreaves) had a bump on the noggin. * last anyone will hear from me on the subject! |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Oct 26, 2014 23:24:35 GMT
I must admit I don't really have a problem with Luke Young at all.
There has been a lot of talk about how being cooped up on a coach / in a car is no good for a footballer. Why subject our star player to another journey unnecessarily? Surely it is better for him to rest up rather than subject him to another six / seven hours in a car or on a coach - and an unnecessary night in a hotel if the latter?
If he was a double-fist-pumping, once more unto the breach dear friends, we will fight them on the beaches, inspirational type captain, you could argue his presence was desperately required.
He isn't. He is a calm, pass the ball, lead by example type captain. A wonderful on field influence, not a dressing room rabble-rouser.
I certainly don't have a problem with him catching up with old friends at Home Park on a day off. A lot of fuss about nothing.
Of far more concern is the apparent stroppy attitude of Krystian Peace and Jordan Chapell (and Courtney Cameron??). Carrying players who we don't want and /or who don't want to be here was always going to be a problem this season.
We've seen it from Chapell before. I was really hoping that Pearce and Cameron were sensible enough to realise that the way for them to further their careers is to knuckle down, work hard and earn a move upwards.
I certainly thought Cameron was doing that - although he has gone off the boil a little recently. Pearce was unlucky in getting injured and having to watch MacDonald and Downes develop a partnership, but his performance at Alfreton was shockingly bad. He had a chance to win back the shirt and threw it away.
Let's hope they snap out of it or it will be very bad news for the club and for the players.
The loss of the chance of FA Cup revenue is a huge blow to the club. We desperately need some windfall revenue from somewhere to get anywhere near balancing the books. The best chance of that has now disappeared. Oh dear.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Oct 26, 2014 23:39:23 GMT
1924/1925 season was the last time we were not in the First Round Proper. That season we went out in the First Qualifying Round 2-1 away to Taunton Town in a replay after a 1-1 draw at Plainmoor. The last time we were not in the first round proper was 1927/28. The FA decided the exemptions before the re-election vote. We would have had to play through all the qualifying rounds with huge disruption to our League schedule. We asked for permission to be excused from competing which was granted - years before Manchester United copied suit. Aberdare Athletic had exemption to round 1, were drawn away to Exeter City and lost 9-1! The current format of the FA Cup - 64 teams in round 3 - dates back to 1925/26. We qualified for round 1 in 1925/26 and were awarded a bye to round 1 in 1926/27. Up to 1924/25, "round 1" was the equivalent of round 3 nowadays - i.e. the last 64. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 11:04:01 GMT
Of far more concern is the apparent stroppy attitude of Krystian Peace and Jordan Chapell (and Courtney Cameron??). Carrying players who we don't want and /or who don't want to be here was always going to be a problem this season. We've seen it from Chapell before. I was really hoping that Pearce and Cameron were sensible enough to realise that the way for them to further their careers is to knuckle down, work hard and earn a move upwards. We were too busy conversing during half-time on Saturday to notice the reported non-actions of Cameron, Chappell and Pearce. Indeed, as part of our "catch up", I'm pretty sure we busily discussing the cost of the club continuing to employ the services of players it would rather not have. Then, if players who the club may wish to retain start to drift offside - or are allowed to do so - you've got a further opportunity to receive ever poorer value-for-money. No wonder Jon fears another deficit; the club simply can't drive down certain costs as much as it would want. Or, just as worryingly, even hope to raise much in the way of additional revenue. This is depressing. How much this masks the club's wider intentions is unclear. All of us suspect that, whatever sort of budget Torquay United had in mind for this season, it would have been considerably lower than in recent years. By how much we don't know. We could be talking about an intended "reasonable Conference budget" (whatever that may mean) which is having to be trimmed all over the place because of the club's inability to shift certain players or earn extra income. Or we could have an "austerity budget" which will still make a loss because of ongoing costs and falling revenues. Either way, the fear is that this will all eat into next season's budget when - supposedly - everyone hoped the sheet of paper would be blanker. |
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Oct 27, 2014 13:00:34 GMT
The observation of supergulls on the other site is of some comfort with regard to the actions of Pearce, Cameron and Chapell at half time on Saturday. He is of the opinion that there is nothing mandatory in relation to stretching the legs at half time and points to this not being common in League's above where changing rooms are considerably larger on the whole. Make of that what you will, but it certainly provided this reader with some crumbs of comfort, as he does talk a fair bit of sense generally. With Pearce and Cameron, in particular, returning to form we know they are capable of, we are a stronger side. Both these players are too damn good when on their game to think they are better than Torquay and wreck their careers from suspect attitude, so I hope supergulls is correct in his assertion that no attitude was on display on Saturday. It certainly has led me to re-appraise and I hope I'm not just wishfully thinking.
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Post by loyalgull on Oct 27, 2014 15:44:09 GMT
let hope hargreaves has had em doing extra training today and they all are made to congregate in the gulls nest at 7pm to see the first round cup draw,and note a little effort and we would of been in it.Saying that,if saturdays showing is anything to go by,i dont think it would bother them one bit,no passion in them for a fight
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Post by loyalgull on Oct 27, 2014 15:52:12 GMT
Of far more concern is the apparent stroppy attitude of Krystian Peace and Jordan Chapell (and Courtney Cameron??). Carrying players who we don't want and /or who don't want to be here was always going to be a problem this season. We've seen it from Chapell before. I was really hoping that Pearce and Cameron were sensible enough to realise that the way for them to further their careers is to knuckle down, work hard and earn a move upwards. We were too busy conversing during half-time on Saturday to notice the reported non-actions of Cameron, Chappell and Pearce. Indeed, as part of our "catch up", I'm pretty sure we busily discussing the cost of the club continuing to employ the services of players it would rather not have. Then, if players who the club may wish to retain start to drift offside - or are allowed to do so - you've got a further opportunity to receive ever poorer value-for-money. No wonder Jon fears another deficit; the club simply can't drive down certain costs as much as it would want. Or, just as worryingly, even hope to raise much in the way of additional revenue. This is depressing. How much this masks the club's wider intentions is unclear. All of us suspect that, whatever sort of budget Torquay United had in mind for this season, it would have been considerably lower than in recent years. By how much we don't know. We could be talking about an intended "reasonable Conference budget" (whatever that may mean) which is having to be trimmed all over the place because of the club's inability to shift certain players or earn extra income. Or we could have an "austerity budget" which will still make a loss because of ongoing costs and falling revenues. Either way, the fear is that this will all eat into next season's budget when - supposedly - everyone hoped the sheet of paper would be blanker. this seasons losses are already well in to 6 figures,couple that with saturdays debacle and no fa cup run pot we are in the mire somewhat,thea is not going to keep bailing us out and who can blame her,difficult times at launa windows stadium or plainmoor as i still know it |
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