Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 17, 2009 10:07:18 GMT
Not being able to get to the Wrexham game and and having to watch it on the TV, I got to see more of Bucks and more importantly his reactions during the game. This post is not meant as a criticism of Bucks the manager as such, but is only asking why he shows so little emotions during a game.
I have listened to some views on here about the advantages of a manager sitting up high in a stand to watch a game, yes he may get a better view of what is going happening on the pitch, but I believe as a leader he should be down by the dugouts.
Look at Dene Saunders last night, soaking wet but there willing his team of from the dugout, and look how he reacted when Wrexham took the lead. Compare that too Bucks face when we scored, I saw no emotion, not signs of any real joy or celebration.
Yes he had come down from the stand for the second half, but what a sad and lonely figure we looked during the first half when the camera zoomed in on him. I would rather see Bucks by the dugout directing things from there himself and getting his messages out to the players on the pitch, he is the manager and the players are playing for him, so come on Bucks, show some emotion and start running things yourself from the dugout.
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merse
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Post by merse on Jan 17, 2009 10:29:54 GMT
He's a manager Dave, not a cheer leader. He's "up there" for a reason and that reason is to evaluate what the opposition is doing , how they are lining up and how our set up is coping..........that's harder to do with a worm's eye view and if he wants to make changes from there he is in communication with the technical area and hell it's only a tiddly little ground anyway and all of twenty seconds from his seat to the touchline at the most. This team has good "leaders" on the pitch..............Greavsie, Woods and Hodges to name but three and taking your point about his lack of emotion after the goal I would counter that with the old saying the most vulnerable time is after you've just scored. Someone has to stay dispassionate and keep an eagle eye on things and I'm glad that the manager is that person. I used to get mad at Leroy for standing on the touchline, hands in pocket; displaying a sort of "lazy body language" added to the fact he rarely seemed to react to events on the pitch in a decisive and positive manner and used to expend my own sort of humour by saying "if you can't think of anything, just wave yer arms about man"..................and do you know? I think there are a significant number of "managers" who do just that! Bucks has shown that he does evaluate quickly and has not been afraid to make changes early in a game in the past, even to the point of first half substitutions and removing our key "play maker". I half expected Wroe to get withdrawn last night in the last twenty minutes following the withdrawal of Green. I'll make a deal with you Dave, let Bucks do the thinking and, and YOU do the cheer leading.....................it'll work better that way!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 17, 2009 11:51:25 GMT
Merse as I said I can fully understand see why some managers, like to view the game from up in a stand. Maybe the camera choose the wrong moment to zoom in on Bucks, when I have seen it done on TV before, the manager was on the phone to the dugout etc. The shot of Bucks was as I said, in my view made him look a sad and lonely man, sat in the stand on his own, with on emotion showing.
Yes fans players and managers are well aware how vulnerable the team is after just scoring a goal, but that is no excuse not to celebrate when your team has just scored is it. You take Sir Alex, when Man U score, you would think its the first goal they have ever scored for him and what does it say when you see him do it.
Well for me it shows just how much it all means to him and I really do feel it is a good example of the body language a manager should be showing the fans and in the case of the Wrexham game, the TV camera's. If I was a neutral watching last night I would have questioned if Bucks cared or even was happy being the manager, yes I know he does but to any one else who would not know that as a fact, they could be forgiven for thinking he didn't.
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Post by Budleigh on Jan 17, 2009 12:13:14 GMT
May I just say that as one who sits a few feet away from Bucks during the game he continually runs up and down those stairs between his seat and the dugout either to shout instructions to the pitch or to give instructions to Shaun North, he may look a lonely figure but i'm sure the last thing he wants when watching from his perch is to be pals with people. He does get animated at times but the one thing that is really obvious is that he's always thinking about the game, the tactics, what to do next and although that may come across as unemotional it's his method of working and the way he makes things happen, to try and be different wouldn't be him and could well disrupt his pattern of thought. I would say he likes to keep one step ahead so even when we scored he would'nt have had time to celebrate as he was probably straight into thinking what his next move should be... he isn't interested in drawing games, only winning so he would've seen our goal as a means, not the end, and immediately set to work on the next part of the plan. Different managers work in different ways and what is good for one isn't necessary good for the next...
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 17, 2009 12:56:03 GMT
BudleighGull as I said in my first post that I was in no way criticizing Bucks the manager, I also said that the only shot we saw of him in the stand, may well have been a bit unfair as I'm sure he is up and down during the game. As I only ever keep my eyes on the pitch from the popside, I never notice myself when Bucks go's down to the dugout.
I do however always look around everywhere in the ground and that includes the dugout when we score a goal. I fully agree every manager has their own style and how they do things and If the way Bucks does it, is the reason we are doing well and playing well, then long may it continue.
I do still feel that taking 10 seconds to really celebrate a goal and show the fans how much it means is not too much to ask and as it would only be for those few seconds, it would not interfere in anyway with Bucks thought plans etc.
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petef
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Post by petef on Jan 17, 2009 12:57:04 GMT
Merse as I said I can fully understand see why some managers, like to view the game from up in a stand. Maybe the camera choose the wrong moment to zoom in on Bucks, when I have seen it done on TV before, the manager was on the phone to the dugout etc. The shot of Bucks was as I said, in my view made him look a sad and lonely man, sat in the stand on his own, with on emotion showing. Yes fans players and managers are well aware how vulnerable the team is after just scoring a goal, but that is no excuse not to celebrate when your team has just scored is it. You take Sir Alex, when Man U score, you would think its the first goal they have ever scored for him and what does it say when you see him do it. Well for me it shows just how much it all means to him and I really do feel it is a good example of the body language a manager should be showing the fans and in the case of the Wrexham game, the TV camera's. If I was a neutral watching last night I would have questioned if Bucks cared or even was happy being the manager, yes I know he does but to any one else who would not know that as a fact, they could be forgiven for thinking he didn't. It also struck me that Bucks showed little emotion when we scored though I am sure inside he felt just like the rest of us -mainly a sense of relief rather than joy. I rather like it that way and just imagine how an over emotional manager would have coped or reacted with the early season criticism after our poor start. The very fact that he kept faith in his players and his own ability to get it right and didn't lambaste all and sundry has undoubtedly contributed to our current form and success. Conversely do we really want an over emotional Billy Mcewen/Steve Evans type ranter who stomps around in a sulk on the touchline with every decision made against his team or goal conceded?
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 17, 2009 13:02:46 GMT
Pete you ask do we really want an over emotional Billy Mcewen/Steve Evans type ranter who stomps around in a sulk on the touchline with every decision made against his team or goal conceded? Well no we do not want that and its good to learn how others view this,I still will stick with my view point that any goal should be greeted with some form of celebration, or emotion that shows how much it means.
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merse
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Post by merse on Jan 17, 2009 15:03:50 GMT
do we really want an over emotional Billy Mcewen/Steve Evans type ranter who stomps around in a sulk on the touchline with every decision made against his team or goal conceded? Or a cry baby tosser like Keegan for that matter.................first sound of criticism from the moaners on here or the Popside and he'd be throwing his toys out of the pram en route to the M5!
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Post by Budleigh on Jan 17, 2009 17:23:04 GMT
I just don't think it's in his make up... he's there to do a job and although the goal probably gave him pleasure it wasn't worth over celebrating because he would've seen it has only half a job done... It would seem he would prefer to show his feelings about the game after the final whistle when he comes onto the pitch... I'd see it as he gets himself absorbed in what is going on in the game and then just gets on with the job he has to do... I know when i'm concentrating on something i'm working on of importance I block out the whole world and however it goes in the interim only let myself go when it's all over... I doubt it's even crossed his mind that others see it in any other way...
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 17, 2009 17:28:44 GMT
BudleighGull, I'm sure your right and as I only got home in time for the kick off I did not see the start of the program, having now watched the part before the game that I recorded, it was good to see a happy smiling Bucks and one who looked well pleased and happy with life. also great to see such a nice piece done on Toddy.
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Post by Budleigh on Jan 17, 2009 17:59:38 GMT
It was good to see Toddy... he was in and around the club all evening (between doing his bit for Setanta)... In fact he collected Roscoe's Man of the Match award after cos Roscoe had gone off to have his shoulder looked at in hospital... He looked and sounded very optimistic, in fact he said he was aiming to be on the bench against Coventry!
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Post by buster on Jan 19, 2009 13:13:29 GMT
Personally I think PB is doing a great job with the resources at his disposal. His latest comments clearly identify he is aware of our current failings.
We all have different ways of conducting ourselves. When I managed and coached youth teams, whilst I often wanted to leap in the air in response to a goal or win, I felt I should conduct myself in a responsible manner. I also had so many things to think of, and as like merse says often my first reaction following the praise was to run to my back 4 and tell them to focus. I was often guilty of concentrating on the game so much I was blissfully unaware of what was being said or going on around me.
There are many an example of an emotional manager who was unsuccessful. Take Thompson at Liverpool. He was passionate about the Reds but didn`t make the grade.
You can show plenty of passion on the training ground and in the dressing room which should get the message across to the players. Match day is the time to focus and concentrate.
buster
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merse
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Post by merse on Jan 20, 2009 4:36:39 GMT
Furhtermore on the debate on how different managers conduct themselves, I see the ramifications of the weekend's game between Rushden & Diamonds and Ebbsfleet will see two habitual touchline "hardmen" up before the beak shortly. Once again Garry Hill has been sent to the stands for encroaching into the opposition's technical area and confronting his opposite number. This time, Liam Daish and his assistant Alan Kimble were also dismissed and I have to ask anyone "is this the way you would wish OUR club to be run?" One would have thought Hill was on thin ice with R&D regards his contract and serious breaches of it following last year's fiasco with Salisbury and I recall Daish getting slung out of the Altrincham ground for good measure following another "sending off" earlier this season. If I was their chairman, and taking into account their poor productivity at present; I think I would be looking very hard at the terms of their contracts and seeking ways to extricate my club from the embarrassment of having them in charge. Whatever Dave Shaw chooses to rattle on about, OUR manager DOES know how to conduct himself and maximise his tactical influence over the team during a game instead of peering in from the outside like some naughty kid or having to issue humble apologies for making a tit of himself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2009 10:30:40 GMT
I would agree that TV coverage of Bucks sat in the stand concentrating on the game is more dignified & reflects far better on the Club than for instance the photos that were splashed across the local and some national publications last season showing him displaying plenty of 'emotion' at Altrincham.
Pushing ,shoving & confrontation with your opposite numbers can all be done much better by the two sets of fans on the Popside on Saturday thereby leaving PB & Chris Coleman to confine themselves soley to concentrating on their teams.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 20, 2009 15:56:56 GMT
, OUR manager DOES know how to conduct himself and maximise his tactical influence over the team during a game instead of peering in from the outside like some naughty kid or having to issue humble apologies for making a tit of himself. Merse, I'm not asking for Paul Buckle to run up to the away manager and throw him up in the air in celebration, I'm not even asking that he does cartwheels down the whole length of the pitch when we score. I do not want him jumping over the fence and hugging all the male fans and start kissing all the lady fans and then give out sweets to the children. All I felt was needed was for 10 seconds, yes just 10 seconds to display some sort of pleasure, excitement, anything to show that the goal meant so much.
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