Aggy - how could you do it?!

This quite a tricky subject to broach but I will make an effort to give my slant on why i don't think he will be missed.

It was, as you say, “his opinions like everybody’s were interesting but hell they were rubbish, negative and just posted to wind everybody up”. But also because he never gave his reasons why or how his opinion was formed, he never backed it up, just spouted.

I would have had much more respect for his posts had he given his reasons behind them.

These following opinions are based on indisputable facts, but facts none the less. People then have their own ‘take’ on these facts, form an opinion and express it, and then most of us probably defend our opinion to the hilt, rarely changing it.

If we take one of the more controversial opinions (one that I still do not share)

Sack Paul Buckle because;

1. Didn’t get us promoted last season
2. Used to be assistant manager at Exeter
3. Only 4 wins in the last 12 games
4. Mentioned Weymouth situation in an interview (before you come back on this, I’m trying to make a point, I know you didn’t say sack him because of it)
5. He is only 5 ft 7 inches (thank the lord for Wikipedia) (obviously Wikipedia is no guarantee of this actually being true, but run with me on this one)

The opinion, of Sack Paul Buckle, is based on 5 things that are true, but at least it provides a reason behind the opinion and allows me/others to counter these opinions and a healthy debate ensues, which is the objective of a truly good FORUM. (which this ABSOLUTELY is)

Don’t sack Paul Buckle because;

1. We finished Third in the league and got to the final of the premier non league cup (and were robbed)
2. Nothing wrong with Exeter. I live just outside the city, i socialise in there all the time (last night went for a meal & the pictures), it’s a great place to live. The council have done all the right things regarding redevelopment.
3. We are in a play off position and we have games in hand over the two teams immediately above us.
4. The Weymouth situation is an absolutely farce. It does affect our team and would be unfair if the league do not address this by at least removing ALL Weymouth games from this season from the league tables.
5. It matters not a jot what height he is. This has no bearing on his managerial skills what so ever. Take Alan Ball he was even shorter and look how successful he was, didn’t he help Exeter get relegated??

My counter opinions all address the original statement and I put my case forward to support my opinion, all of which are left so that someone can and will counter my opinion. Some are stronger arguments than others and some are harder to defend, but at least an opinion is formed and supported with my reasons.

The point is, my 5 reasons for not sacking him could, in theory, lead to even more debate on non Buckle related subjects i.e. Exeter redevelopment compared to Torquay’s lack of it, The Weymouth situation, Alan Balls managerial skills.

This is where my issue with Dave Shaw’s posts lay. He always had an opinion and I wouldn’t have minded how controversial it was as long as it was supported by some rhyme or reason, no matter how tenuous it was.

I’m not saying that everyone needs to substantiate or justify their opinions, what I am saying is if your opinion is so far left of centre (or right) then at least back it up with a reason for this, at least that way you get some respect for your opinion. This is why Merse, and now Fonda, get lots of replies to their posts. I apologise for naming people, but these two have opinions from opposite ends of the spectrum from each other, always give reasons to support their opinions, which some agree with and some don’t, but it certainly creates a good debate. That’s why I have much more respect for their posts than I ever had with Dave Shaw’s posts.

Wouldn’t it have been better to say sack Paul Buckle BECAUSE he didn’t get us promoted last season and THEN replace him with Sven Goran Erickson. WHY?? Because he is a good manager and he is available. NEVER going happen but boy would it create a lively debate. First of all on the issue of the sacking and then on the issue of the replacement.

Yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but do we NEED him on the forum?? No we do not need him and I think the forum is actually better off without him. That’s my opinion, I have given my reasons, I expect several responses, including one that calls me a Tw*t and says I spout emotional claptrap. Emotional claptrap yes, but with a perspective to why I’m thinking that.

As anybody who knows me will tell you, i'm fairly mild mannered, laid back and not one to shout my mouth off. As such I don't tend to place anything on here that may cause offence, stir things up or break a trust in anything I may've been told or heard. Therefore when I saw one of Dave Shaw's posts that was way off the mark I sent him a polite message explaining that, although I couldn't divulge any actual info, I had reason to believe what he had written to be incorrect and explained it in a basic scenario. I had a really lovely message back from him telling me he understood that I couldn't give out personal information but would trust what I'd inferred in this instance. He also said how much he was looking forward to jetting over for the play-off final. I'm not in any way trying to defend the man because he did come out with some negative thoughts and suggestions but he did have the decency to concede on this, and one other point in personal corresspondence. I would suggest that as someone so far away this was his main way of keeping in touch with like minded (well maybe not quite!) souls but had a way about him that rubbed people up the wrong way. I did enjoy reading some of his stuff, although I wanted to thump my keyboard at times, but rather like texting, emailing etc it's very difficult to gauge a person who one has never met but relying only on the written word. A pain in the arse, certainly, but underneath it I think he enjoyed putting the boot in to get a reaction. And this a man whose opinion on the current managemant was 100% oppposite to mine! True, he may well not be missed on here but I think he himself would miss it and when you live on the other side of the world and this is one of your main ways of retaining contact with something important to you, then that's a shame.

DaveR. I'm not convinced mentioning a Gary Glitter song was the best thing in the context of your earlier post!!!!

Ah. Now i'm with you, Dave. Can't understand why some would stoop to that. His views are generally as unsubstantiated as tufc01 points out, but you were right to act on such unfair PM's.

I must admit that I am with TUFC01 all the way on this one. I will not miss this particular poster’s input at all as he never DEBATED anything. He just ASSERTED the same thing time and again and was then insulting of anyone who disagreed – invariably labelling them as weak-minded, weak-willed, naïve, subservient creatures who read tabloid newspapers and vote Tory. It was a style we witnessed from somebody else who went a long way to destroying Mervo’s site by driving away reasonable posters with one track obsessional rants which either ignored facts or twisted and distorted them to support a pre-conceived position.

TUFC01 says that there was never any fact or substance behind the one-eyed rants, but I would go further and say that occasionally the rants were based on blatantly incorrect assertions – although anyone pointing this out would receive the old head-nodding, cap-doffing, Daily Mail reading nonsense.

There was obviously a preconception that Buckle makes mistakes and never learns from them. One assertion he made to support this was that Buckle did not make any signings last January and, having failed to learn from this mistake, would not make any this January. Andy C took the trouble to list all the players we signed last January, but still the rant – which flew in the face of the facts – carried on.

He could have argued that last season Buckle made too many changes in January – that losing the aggressive Mansell/Hargreaves combination to accommodate the more pedestrian Adams and breaking up the successful Sills/Phillips combination to accommodate the less physical Dsane had taken away the rhythm we had before Christmas – although most agreed at the time that these were quality signings which increased our options. He could have argued that Buckle was now over-compensating and doing the polar opposite of last year to avoid risking unsettling the team. Now you could agree or disagree with that ARGUMENT, but the (false) ASSERTION that Buckle was repeating last year’s error was utterly ridiculous. You cannot argue or debate with somebody who pays no attention to the real facts.

To my mind, this kind of rabid assertion actually hardens opinion amongst the open-minded against the view stated. I am sure there are grains of truth in some of the complaints made (much as there was a lot of truth in the dissatisfaction with Bateson of the other poster I mentioned). But dressing up all misgivings with a load of rhetoric and a load of inaccurate assertions just makes the poster look obsessional and / or agenda-driven. It would be much better to present a balanced case with a logical conclusion.

It certainly isn't Barton. I agree with pretty much every word you say.

Last season with Aldershot in the same league, I got to talk to many local(to where I live) Shots diehards, with whom my team now played in the same League. And I thoroughly enjoyed the season for it.

When I hear talk of Premiership football, "What is Skirtl's best position?", "Is playing Ronaldo on the right again the inevitable sacrifice for signing Berbatov?", I can't help but overhear, and form an opinion, but it's usually one along the lines of "Go and watch a game. You are not Alan Hansen, or worse, Mark Lawrenson".

I suppose where I slightly differ is that I enjoy the mood of others when things are going well for England at major competitions. But the moment we go out, final whistle onwards, I really can't be doing with some half-baked analysis from someone who clearly does not deserve my scorn for their observations.