Jon
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Post by Jon on Feb 25, 2009 13:44:22 GMT
Without wanting to extend this little misunderstanding any further than is absolutely necessary, it was probably the comment above that Dave is referring to Merse. It could be construed as somewhat ‘dismissive’? I’m sure we can all agree it was just a poor choice of words on your part, and put it all behind us. That was how I viewed the remark and why I felt the need to state that all views are valid no matter what our status, we do still bow to those with greater knowledge mind you, that does include even merse when he is barking up the right tree of coarse  Merse is a self-confessed grumpy old git. Why on earth are we all now surprised that he has responded in the style of a grumpy old git? That is what grumpy old gits do. The comment from JM that Merse is alluding to is this: ...Its just press talk, thats all, how can you get "delusional" from that i'll never know.
Buckle is certainly no fool, he knows confidence is a little low and would gain nothing from giving the players a public hammering, its not his style anyway.I did try to explain to Fonda that the reason Merse attributed a great deal of credibility to this statement is that it comes from someone who has found himself in the position of being pressured by the press to give post match comments and has always had to be careful to have the effect of any comments on player confidence / morale / team spirit clear in his head before opening his mouth. Such responsibility for the results of careless words in press soundbites may have occurred to some who have not managed or captained at a level of sport that brings press interest, but clearly not to all. Merse may have put his point more diplomatically, but that is not his style. My attempt to help provide some clarification was dismissed by Fonda calling it a "factoid" - who is being "dismissive" now? People who know me know that I don't deal in factoids, I deal in facts. |
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Feb 25, 2009 14:00:23 GMT
Then a subsequent issue is that i'm evidently not clever enough to know the difference between a 'factoid' and a 'fact'. I wasn't even aware there is a difference, and my comment certainly wasn't designed to be dismissive in any way.
I do still wonder why JM's history makes him more able to comment though? Isn't that a bit presumptious. Merse doesn't know me or my history.
EDIT: Dictionary.com is my friend. Having now researched 'factoid', it appears it is an unsubstantiated fact. I apologise to Jon for apparently suggesting the description of JM wasn't accurate.
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merse
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Post by merse on Feb 25, 2009 19:03:40 GMT
I do still wonder why JM's history makes him more able to comment though? Isn't that a bit presumptious. Merse doesn't know me or my history.  I've not said JM is "more able to comment" I happen to believe that his understanding of the difference in what a manager - or any team leader for that matter; can say in confidence to his charges can, and usually is; vastly different to what he feels he can make public without damaging team moral or self respect in the eyes of the public is more realistic than yours. Liken it to being at a dinner party and you reckon your missus is behaving in a way that causes you embarrassment. What you say to her when you get to the privacy of your own home is vastly different to what you might say to her at the time in front of other people. In my opinion, you frequently make a lot of naive observations of football that I feel that you have no real insight into how the mechanics of the professional game work. Also, in my opinion; Enzo took a stance that was suggesting he felt the manager take a confrontational manner towards his players and that "the club" take the manager to task for the shortcomings as he (Enzo) viewed them on Saturday. I used TUFC01 as an illustration of my point due to his self confessed poor view of the game from that terrace at Kettering and I used JM's contribution as an example of someone who indeed is long experienced as a leader of a sporting team (cricket captain) who understands the psychology and parameters of what can and cannot be said in public and the effect that can have on your team. In closing, we're all adults on here and I don't see the need to faff about with false pleasantries and platitudes....................I've lived too long to dress what I've got to say with fripperies like that. What you get from me is what I believe. Whether or not anyone agrees with me I care not a jot and I reserve the right to present an alternative view to anybodies post; just as I defend their right to oppose my view..........................you would be hard pressed to find a post from me stating that a person has no right to their view. |
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Feb 25, 2009 19:18:55 GMT
I certainly don't desire 'false pleasantries' from anyone. I'm very happy with people disagreeing with my point of view, as i thoroughly enjoy a decent debate - that is what we're here for after all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2009 21:00:01 GMT
Merse
An interesting post as always Merse & I can't claim the prize for finding a post from you denying others right to a view, but in mentioning your old posts I would ask you to clarify one point.
While I understand your comments above....'all adults...no need for false pleasantries...say what you believe' etc etc , I couldn't quite square this with your comments to 'atheringtongull' below
As we're all adults what we got from atherington was also what he believed, that in some ways London,to him, seemed reminiscent of a foreign country. When he walked up that slope 30 years ago should he have dressed his opinions with false pleasantries & fripperies or should he have said what he believed & not cared one jot if some didn't agree with his opinion of London ?
At the time I thought you were advising atherington that we should be careful what we say particularly as there will always be some all to ready to play the 'offence' card, but your latest comments seem to run more along the lines of 'say what you mean & mean what you say' and don't give a jot if others hold a different view.
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midlandstufc
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Post by midlandstufc on Feb 25, 2009 21:06:52 GMT
Merse,
just read your post and it cracked me up I must say!
What's wrong with being pleasant?
And, yes, you have argued against another's right to a point of view in the past, on the basis of your opinion on their debating ability.
It would be nice one time that you acknowledged another post that had changed your point of view. That is the point of debate. We have our stance and we either get to an impasse or reach an understanding.
Have more love old fruit and peace be to all...
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merse
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Post by merse on Feb 26, 2009 4:21:26 GMT
Merse An interesting post as always Merse & I can't claim the prize for finding a post from you denying others right to a view, but in mentioning your old posts I would ask you to clarify one point. While I understand your comments above....'all adults...no need for false pleasantries...say what you believe' etc etc , I couldn't quite square this with your comments to 'atheringtongull' below As we're all adults what we got from atherington was also what he believed, that in some ways London,to him, seemed reminiscent of a foreign country. When he walked up that slope 30 years ago should he have dressed his opinions with false pleasantries & fripperies or should he have said what he believed & not cared one jot if some didn't agree with his opinion of London ? At the time I thought you were advising atherington that we should be careful what we say particularly as there will always be some all to ready to play the 'offence' card, but your latest comments seem to run more along the lines of 'say what you mean & mean what you say' and don't give a jot if others hold a different view. I've quoted verbatim what you posted last night as for the life of me, I cannot really oppose what you state as an opinion, but in response to your final point I would explain that my wish was to put over the view that I felt it would have been better if he had not held those views in the first place............... not that he had stated them. Mind you, I've heard it mockingly said (but not for a couple of decades mind you) that being in a Paddington pub was like being in Bristol or Cardiff such was the proliferation of single men from those areas flooding the pace in search of work and somewhere to live. But the "alternative view" I wished to put over to "atherington gull" at the time was one of the father of a multi cultural and mixed heritage family who gets a bit pissed off with people who assume that only Caucasians speaking Oxford Dictionary English can be representative of this country in it's capital city, when the FACT is that London is, and has been for many years; the very epitome of multi culturalism, tolerance and embracing of the many different ethnic, religious and political groups who "represent" the world in an "international" city. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2014 11:49:42 GMT
I resurrected this thread for the simple reason that I watched a football match near Kettering last night. In doing so I had vague memory that we'd enjoyed a lively discussion in the aftermath of our game at Rockingham Road in February 2009. Good grief, that's an understatement. If anybody wanted to undertake an archaeological excavation into the history of TFF this would be an excellent starting point. Anyway, to the matter in hand. A lot of water has passed under Kettering Town's bridge since they gave us something of a runaround on that day five years ago. The team has fallen from the Conference to three levels below; the club has entered a CVA agreement and survived winding-up orders to the extent that it was widely-thought to have "died" earlier this season. The old ground has gone and Kettering have since played at Corby and the one-time home of Rushden & Diamonds. And, of the players who faced us back in 2009, one has become something of a pundit relating to matters Torquay United. Another put through his own goal in our favour only last Saturday. The dust at Kettering appears to have settled. To an extent. Last night's programme spoke of the monthly £1500 CVA payments being met by forty regular contributors, bucket collections and other donations. That begged the question as to how these will stand up during the non-playing months. But it must help that Kettering have by far the largest crowds in the division. Indeed the whole affair has sparked a series of accusing letters in the Non-League Paper this season claiming the club's refinancing manoeuvres have left them with an almighty playing budget for the Southern League (Central) division. This has been strenuously denied by subsequent correspondents. Nonetheless, after a dodgy start, Kettering have stormed up the league - nine successive league wins in April - and finished in 3rd place behind Dunstable and Rugby. Which brings us to last night's play-off semi-final against Daventry Town played at Latimer Park, Kettering's latest temporary home. Kettering scored from a corner after two minutes. And that was it for the scoring. A tense, tight, gripping encounter; not a thriller but never ever dull. Daventry had much of the proverbial "extra quality" but couldn't make it count. All the neutral wants from a play-off game but, had my team been playing, my nerves would have been shredded. It was strangely reminiscent of Histon in 2009. But, at this level, the play-offs are not two-legged. Kettering now play Slough Town at home on Monday. Photographs below but, beforehand, there was time for a cuppa in Kettering. The last time was a busy Saturday. Yesterday was a quiet Tuesday in just another small English town. But there's always the local newspaper:  Latimer Park is the home of Burton Park Wanderers who have knocked around the local equivalent of the SW Peninsula Premier since the 1970s. It's in Burton Latimer, beyond the Kettering by-pass, sandwiched between the Morrisons depot and the Weetabix factory. All told it's not unlike a diminished Torquay United pitching up at Buckland Athletic. Kettering had over 1200 for the Easter league fixture against Daventry. Yesterday's attendance was announced as 1466. Nobody seems quite clear as to the capacity but it's a long time since I was in such a big crowd at such as small venue. It made for a cracking occasion.         |
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