Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 20:57:17 GMT
After the tremendous contributions to the Mike Green thread we’ll stick to that era and look at the two managers either side of him, starting with Bruce Rioch.
If you made a list of the biggest football names to be associated with Torquay United, Rioch would be right up there: captain of Scotland, championship winner at Derby, spells at Aston Villa and Everton. Then, after leaving Plainmoor, manager at Middlesbrough, Millwall, Bolton, Arsenal, Norwich and Wigan. That’s quite a career either side of being with us which bears certain comparisons with Frank O’Farrell.
All told, Rioch had an association with Torquay United of just over three years starting in Nov 1980 when he arrived - as a player – barely two-and-a-bit years after playing for Scotland in the 1978 World Cup finals in Argentina. He joined from Seattle Sounders at a time when a number of leading, usually ageing British players were appearing in the North American Soccer League. Can anyone provide any background to the arrangement we had with Seattle? It was usually portrayed as a loan deal – Rioch returned to the NASL, as expected, the following spring – but, at the time, I’m sure some papers reported a refundable fee (possibly £100,000) had changed hands to dress it up as a permanent deal to circumvent loan restrictions. Am I imagining this?
Either way, as Merse recalls in the Mike Green thread, Bruce Rioch was back at Plainmoor for 1981/82 in his capacity as player-coach to Frank O’Farrell. This arrangement lasted for just one season – during which United finished 15th – before Rioch took over as manager. Any thoughts, please, on the division of labour between O’Farrell and Rioch during that period? Was it a success or not?
I ask partly because I’m a largely unreliable witness to the events of that period. After a prolonged student existence – punctuated by various spells back home in Torquay – I was now living miles away with South Devon increasingly slipping off my radar. From Mike Green’s departure in 1981 to the Crewe game in May 1987 I doubt I saw more than fifteen games at Plainmoor, most of these being on visits at Christmas and Easter. And, although I probably averaged 6 or 7 away games each season, I rarely came into contact with other Torquay United supporters to hear gossip and opinion. Our away support in those days was pretty poor – in common with many other clubs – and, in those hooligan times (not that our games ever saw much trouble), I usually favoured an undercover role amongst the home supporters. All of my “news” was of the Dave Thomas variety mailed on a weekly basis by my mother. And, I have to say, that’s a reminder of the superb service the Herald Express provided in those days and why I’ll always appreciate Dave Thomas’s part in helping me follow my team from afar.
So, overall, my recall of Bruce Rioch’s time at Plainmoor is rather fuzzy. Nothing much stands out and, of course, I missed the big events such as the Oxford and Sheffield Wednesday cup games. Is this the way Plainmoor regulars of the time remember it? Or was I too dislocated from Plainmoor in body and soul to have a clue what was going on?
I certainly wanted Bruce Rioch to succeed because I liked him as a player at both Derby and Everton. My memory says there was always a degree of hope when he was at the helm. Was this commonly felt? Or wishful thinking on my behalf because of the player he’d been?
How, then, do we assess the Rioch Era? The bare facts, twenty-five years on (can you believe that?), appear rather inconclusive as we finished 12th – as mid-table as possible - in his sole full season in charge (1982/83). Not for the only time in our history, that marked a tail off from a better position at New Year. And, the next season, we were 14th when Bruce suddenly left the club in January 1984. It took the Orwellian arrival of Mr Webb to improve our final position to 9th.
Digging deeper Merse has already provided one insight into those days:
Bruce brought his own know how of interaction with the local public gained from his time in the USA and a host of good contacts (so vital for any small club) both on the playing side and commercial aspect of the club.
There was no middle ground with Bruce, you were either of his mentality or you were out. In my role away from the playing side of the club, I had no problem with that and got on very well with him. Not to say he was in agreement with everything I or others did, but he would always put over his point of view in a constructive yet forceful way and one couldn't help but respect and work very hard for the guy, and hence the club.
Just as he demanded one hundred per cent loyalty and commitment, he returned it to me in bucket loads and fought my corner on more than one occasion when his superior standing in the eyes of the board stood head and shoulders above mine.
What would others like to add to this?
For my part, I’m left with two “what if?” questions buzzing around my mind.
Firstly, what if – and I think I’m right in alluding to this – the Rioch/Alan Slough partnership had lasted longer? They’d been old buddies since school days in Luton – Slough going on to play in an FA Cup final for Fulham whilst Rioch was at Derby – and, at first, it appeared as if they were going to prove a strong double act. Then something went wrong. Was it a case of Alan Slough suffering from a stress-related illness? Bruce afterwards, from memory, was left pretty much on his own at Plainmoor with Slough leaving the game and settling in South Devon for good.
If my outline recall is correct, what was the gap between Alan Slough’s departure and the Colin Anderson Incident? This, for those not around at the time, refers to the training ground dust-up when Rioch apparently assaulted the player resulting in him being relieved of his managerial duties. What are the various takes on this affair? Was Rioch himself stressed? Were Mr Webb and his associates lurking in the background? Was something else going on?
That begs the second question: what if the Anderson Affair had never taken place? What would Bruce Rioch have eventually achieved at Torquay? And, had he stayed longer, would Dave Webb have ever darkened our path?
If you made a list of the biggest football names to be associated with Torquay United, Rioch would be right up there: captain of Scotland, championship winner at Derby, spells at Aston Villa and Everton. Then, after leaving Plainmoor, manager at Middlesbrough, Millwall, Bolton, Arsenal, Norwich and Wigan. That’s quite a career either side of being with us which bears certain comparisons with Frank O’Farrell.
All told, Rioch had an association with Torquay United of just over three years starting in Nov 1980 when he arrived - as a player – barely two-and-a-bit years after playing for Scotland in the 1978 World Cup finals in Argentina. He joined from Seattle Sounders at a time when a number of leading, usually ageing British players were appearing in the North American Soccer League. Can anyone provide any background to the arrangement we had with Seattle? It was usually portrayed as a loan deal – Rioch returned to the NASL, as expected, the following spring – but, at the time, I’m sure some papers reported a refundable fee (possibly £100,000) had changed hands to dress it up as a permanent deal to circumvent loan restrictions. Am I imagining this?
Either way, as Merse recalls in the Mike Green thread, Bruce Rioch was back at Plainmoor for 1981/82 in his capacity as player-coach to Frank O’Farrell. This arrangement lasted for just one season – during which United finished 15th – before Rioch took over as manager. Any thoughts, please, on the division of labour between O’Farrell and Rioch during that period? Was it a success or not?
I ask partly because I’m a largely unreliable witness to the events of that period. After a prolonged student existence – punctuated by various spells back home in Torquay – I was now living miles away with South Devon increasingly slipping off my radar. From Mike Green’s departure in 1981 to the Crewe game in May 1987 I doubt I saw more than fifteen games at Plainmoor, most of these being on visits at Christmas and Easter. And, although I probably averaged 6 or 7 away games each season, I rarely came into contact with other Torquay United supporters to hear gossip and opinion. Our away support in those days was pretty poor – in common with many other clubs – and, in those hooligan times (not that our games ever saw much trouble), I usually favoured an undercover role amongst the home supporters. All of my “news” was of the Dave Thomas variety mailed on a weekly basis by my mother. And, I have to say, that’s a reminder of the superb service the Herald Express provided in those days and why I’ll always appreciate Dave Thomas’s part in helping me follow my team from afar.
So, overall, my recall of Bruce Rioch’s time at Plainmoor is rather fuzzy. Nothing much stands out and, of course, I missed the big events such as the Oxford and Sheffield Wednesday cup games. Is this the way Plainmoor regulars of the time remember it? Or was I too dislocated from Plainmoor in body and soul to have a clue what was going on?
I certainly wanted Bruce Rioch to succeed because I liked him as a player at both Derby and Everton. My memory says there was always a degree of hope when he was at the helm. Was this commonly felt? Or wishful thinking on my behalf because of the player he’d been?
How, then, do we assess the Rioch Era? The bare facts, twenty-five years on (can you believe that?), appear rather inconclusive as we finished 12th – as mid-table as possible - in his sole full season in charge (1982/83). Not for the only time in our history, that marked a tail off from a better position at New Year. And, the next season, we were 14th when Bruce suddenly left the club in January 1984. It took the Orwellian arrival of Mr Webb to improve our final position to 9th.
Digging deeper Merse has already provided one insight into those days:
There was no middle ground with Bruce, you were either of his mentality or you were out. In my role away from the playing side of the club, I had no problem with that and got on very well with him. Not to say he was in agreement with everything I or others did, but he would always put over his point of view in a constructive yet forceful way and one couldn't help but respect and work very hard for the guy, and hence the club.
Just as he demanded one hundred per cent loyalty and commitment, he returned it to me in bucket loads and fought my corner on more than one occasion when his superior standing in the eyes of the board stood head and shoulders above mine.
What would others like to add to this?
For my part, I’m left with two “what if?” questions buzzing around my mind.
Firstly, what if – and I think I’m right in alluding to this – the Rioch/Alan Slough partnership had lasted longer? They’d been old buddies since school days in Luton – Slough going on to play in an FA Cup final for Fulham whilst Rioch was at Derby – and, at first, it appeared as if they were going to prove a strong double act. Then something went wrong. Was it a case of Alan Slough suffering from a stress-related illness? Bruce afterwards, from memory, was left pretty much on his own at Plainmoor with Slough leaving the game and settling in South Devon for good.
If my outline recall is correct, what was the gap between Alan Slough’s departure and the Colin Anderson Incident? This, for those not around at the time, refers to the training ground dust-up when Rioch apparently assaulted the player resulting in him being relieved of his managerial duties. What are the various takes on this affair? Was Rioch himself stressed? Were Mr Webb and his associates lurking in the background? Was something else going on?
That begs the second question: what if the Anderson Affair had never taken place? What would Bruce Rioch have eventually achieved at Torquay? And, had he stayed longer, would Dave Webb have ever darkened our path?
The arrangement by which Bruce iniitially came to Plainmoor was indeed a gentlemen's agreement, for there was no loan system in place that enveloped the international football scene at the time.
