Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2008 9:56:49 GMT
I got this picture through the publishers of a book which featured a number of German reconnaissance photos of south coast resorts. I've printed it the right-way-up but you'll notice the labelling facing the opposite way. I've managed to scan about 90% of the total image - the missing bit shows the new Watcombe estate under construction.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 14, 2008 13:43:06 GMT
Sadly the Germans went on to drop bombs on Torbay, while the Bay escaped with only a few raids, unlike places like London, one bomb caused a great number of sunday school children to lose their lifes. The church of St. Mary the Virgin which gave its name to St. Marychurch, a parish on the outskirts of Torquay, was destroyed by enemy action on Sunday May 30th 1943 in the early afternoon. Children had begun to arrive for Sunday School and most of the girls were already inside the church, some with the woman who had brought them - the boys were still playing outside the door. Inside, the Sunday School teachers were waiting to start their classes when aircraft flew in from the sea and bombs began to fall. When the raid was over and the full enormity of the event was realised, would-be rescuers came from far and wide, making frantic attempts to move tons of masonry, metal, timber and glass with their bare hands but in spite of their heroic efforts, the last of the bodies was not recovered for another 48 hours. Different sources quote different numbers of casualties but below is the number killed as carved in stone over the doorway of the rebuilt church. This states that 26 children and teachers were killed in the church itself. The inscription above the church doorway A memorial was erected in Torquay's Cemetery to 21 of the children, 8 of whom were buried close to the Memorial. Its corner in the cemetery looks sad and lonely today and small wonder, for who remains to visit it? The memorial to the children killed 30 May 1943 in Torquay Cemetery Three granite slabs are mounted on a double layer of the same stone. The central and largest slab is topped by a cross cut in relief. It bears the words IN LOVING AND ENDURING MEMORY OF TWENTY-ONE CHILDREN WHO LOST THEIR LIVES IN THE PARISH CHURCH O F ST. MARYCHURCH IN THE AIR RAID OF MAY 30 1943. BLESSED ARE THE PURE IN HEART FOR THEY SHALL SEE GOD Matthew 5. 8
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merse
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Post by merse on Dec 14, 2008 15:37:50 GMT
If you study that recce pic carefully you'll notice that between Tor Abbey Sands and the Harbour the land ran parallel with Rock Walk. That was because the land on which the Princess Theatre and Gardens now stands is claimed from the sea. Can all those people who reckoned the logistics of building a stadium on the site of the "Rec" were insurmountable due to flooding, take on board the major civil engineering project that took place in the early sixties when Torbay WAS a go ahead area?
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 14, 2008 15:41:00 GMT
I think you will find Merse that it was the Victorians who did the work to reclaim the land and it is now sinking fast.
It can clearly be seen to be there in the picture, if you look properly
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merse
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Post by merse on Dec 14, 2008 15:57:11 GMT
With respect the land claimed in Victorian times (it was never there previously to be re-claimed) was the piece where the road runs beneath the cliffs and the gardens with the war memorial and Regency style fountain in them. Am I mistaken in calling those Princess Gardens? If so, are they Pavilion Gardens or something else? Prior to that the only road was up and over the rock face where those hotels stand. I distinctly remember the major engineering project when I was a young boy of the "rafts" being extended out into the sea to provide support for that curved double decked promenade and the Princess Theatre being built at the same time. the bit where there is another fountain in a more sixties style. The bit that is reported to be "subsiding" is the Victorian project as you say.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 14, 2008 16:51:44 GMT
The Gardens take their name from Princess Louise, the then Princess Royal and fourth daughter of Queen Victoria, who in May 1890 laid the foundation stone for the "pleasure ground" and Promenade Pier (completed June 1895). The foundation stone is located between the Princess Theatre and the War Memorial. The gardens were opened in 1894. One of the most eye-catching features which still dominates the gardens today is the cast iron ornamental fountain which was a gift from Mr. H. Young from the nearby Torbay Hotel. Picture one shows the land that was reclaimed by the Victorians it is the Ordnance survey done in 1861. Picture two shows the work that was done when the theatre was built, it opened in 1961, note that no new land has been reclaimed.Only the banjo is an extra, that has been closed for some time, due to the sinking of the gardens. Rock Walk as it once was. Rock Walk Today As I did not want the pictures to make you too sad Merse, I put one with a bus on it just for you.
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Post by tqriviera on Dec 14, 2008 16:55:52 GMT
Merse, the difference is that the level of the grass at the Rec is below the high tide level so, if anything was to be built at the Rec to be more or less always playable, the whole surface would need to be raised as, even the best pumps in the world cannot defy gravity and get rid of the water if the sea level is higher. Even if it was possible to build something there it would be very, very expensive. It is not so important if amateur rugby or cricket is postponed but professional football is a different matter.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 14, 2008 17:07:30 GMT
If you study that recce pic carefully you'll notice that between Tor Abbey Sands and the Harbour the land ran parallel with Rock Walk. That was because the land on which the Princess Theatre and Gardens now stands is claimed from the sea. Can all those people who reckoned the logistics of building a stadium on the site of the "Rec" were insurmountable due to flooding, take on board the major civil engineering project that took place in the early sixties when Torbay WAS a go ahead area? This wonderful work done in the 60's Merse was closed off for one whole season, due to it being deemed unsafe. Work has been done on it and most of it is now open, but a part still remains fenced off as is the banjo.
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merse
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Post by merse on Dec 14, 2008 17:13:33 GMT
Those pictures of Rock Walk are shocking and a good example of someone who said to me the other day that after ten months living in the town they felt suicidal and were returning to London. They said when they return the overriding memory will be of boarded up decay, unused retail unites and of being persistently pestered to buy drugs when using cafes in the town. The only thing worth while in Torquay from all this they said was visiting Plainmoor. The example I would use of locating a stadium on a sea front would be Monte Carlo where one was built in a similar location to the Princess Theatre with the pitch on the "third floor" of the construction with car parks, a sports hall and hostel underneath. Any pics Chris Hayes? In any case refer to www.worldstadiums.comTorquay certainly looks a depressing site these days....................I'll not be busting a gut to go and see it.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 14, 2008 17:29:06 GMT
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 14, 2008 17:38:24 GMT
Sorry Merse forgot to add your bus shot for you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2008 17:46:43 GMT
Great stuff, Dave, you beat me to it with the information about the Princess Theatre opening in 1961 and the "banjo" dating from that time. I actually think a few yards were claimed from the sea to fit in the theatre. If you compare the maps the stubby little jetty at North Quay is now shorter. Then, if you take a ruler, a straight line extends to a different place on Vane Hill. Although the basic survey for the earlier map was done in 1861, the amendments put it later than 1912 because it shows the Pavilion. Certainly the Winter Gardens have gone - flogged off to Great Yarmouth in 1903 - and there's even an "omnibus depot" on Torwood Street. The Grey Cars garage - which we mentioned yesterday - was early 1930s (although I don't know if something similar was there immediately beforehand). Going back to the sea front, the promanade work between the pier and Palm Court - which included the "sunken gardens" and bringing the sea wall away from the edge of the road - was completed in 1934. Here's some detail from a 1906 map (also based on a 1861 survey with additions). It shows the Princess Gardens in place but a very different scene from the pier to the Palm Court:
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 14, 2008 18:07:50 GMT
It is possible another yard or two were pinched Barton, but as I stated the land was reclaimed by the Victorians and not as Merse seemed to think, by workmen in the 60's. As tqriviera pointed out the Rec side is below hide tide levels and not suitable for a new stadium. I will repost your picture Barton to show the problems the seafront has, this picture has a bus also in it to keep merse happy
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2008 18:21:36 GMT
I could see the Anglican church at St Marychurch quite clearly from our house and would have walked past it as a child for many years without knowing the story of the bombing raid and the church's restoration. Indeed I'm staggered to know - although I shouldn't given I was born just 12 years after the bombing - that reconsecration took place during the week of my first birthday in December 1956. One of John Pike's books records that one of the planes hit the church and crashed near Teignmouth Road killing the pilot. Several hotels, used by the RAF were hit - with several deaths -and a bomb bounced through part of Barton School without exploding. This fits the story we were told as kids about the two patches in the roof of one of the buildings. On a different note there's a football link with the churchyard at St Marychurch. Against the wall - between the church and Fore Street - you'll see an inscription commemorating David William Mercer, international footballer. Here's his entry from an old book of England internationals I've had for thirty-five years:
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 14, 2008 18:35:59 GMT
As you can see this is a pitcure of the church before the bombing, it shows also the graves as they once were, before the stones were all removed against the walls, to aid maintenance
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