FL2: Wycombe v Torquay 6 October 2012

it was stinker of a under performance bartondows,it may well be that many that witnessed it yesterday would use other language to describe if if it were allowed,lingy was also very scathing of the whole performance as well.Annoyingly we will as is often the case with us,play poorly until the fans start losing a bit of interest then come up with a belter of a performance.

I'm not a fan of the post-match rants either, and I agree with this.

His management style is HIS management style and maybe the fans appreciate a more hands on and vocal one ?? I certainly got sick of Buckle's constant droning on about how well the players did when they were on occasions appalling !!

IF Ling's style p***es players off then TOUGH ....... BUT the next question is if they aren't up to it then who is I fear that an apparant apathy towards loanees could prove dangerous ?

I will say that a couple of the "stars" of last year are well off their game this season, past sell by date perhaps

No I did not see the game but if I had of done, then I would have given my views on the performance and stated very loud and clear if I felt the players had not turned up. I think anyone reading my post would have learned I was not at the game and the opinions I have formed, were based solely on what I have read.

It has been the case on any forum in the past that some people feel you have no right to comment on any game unless you were there. That is not a view I hold as I was not at the battle of Hastings but I still feel I have view points about it that I could discuss in any debate.

You only need to read some recent threads on the TFF and you will soon learn many of the points being raised in a number of debates, are from people who were not actually there, or a part of what was going on at the time. Most of those views were formed by reading and taking in everything that has been said and then using all that information to form an opinion. As someone who loves history I’m sure you have opinions on many events that took place even before you were born and I do not see any reason why people can’t have opinions on anything that might have only happened yesterday, if they have read and listened to what those who were there have said.

It goes without saying if you watched something with your own eyes, you will be in a far better position to judge and give your own viewpoints, right now that is something that can’t happen for me, but I still feel I have a right to offer an opinion based on as I said, what I have read and heard spoken.

I would agree however that the use of the term “the players did not turn up” or “certain players - couldn't be arsed?” Is as you say a pretty serious allegation and not one that is easy to prove. When I write I try to ask the questions in the hope of encouraging more debate on the subject.

Yes some days a team seem to play out of their skins and produce great results, on others they look poor and its easy I suppose to look and ask the question were the players up for the match. I do not have any answers as like I have said, I have not seen the team play, but I have watched enough football over the years to know you do get games were players most certainly seem to lack effort where you end up wondering if they really do want to play for the club.

I’m not for one second suggesting that might be the case right now, I’m just trying to learn form those who have seen the team play, where they think the problems lay and how they can be fixed.

The bottom line is all fans if they are able to go to games or not, want the best for the team and the club and only want it to do well. The day will come when I hope to give my support in person to the club, but until that day I’m happy to follow from a distance and express and fears and concerns I might have.

Our club is not broke, far from it and has made great strides over the last few years, nor is the team broke, but for what ever reason its not working as well as we would want it too. We as fans are not in a position to fix what is wrong, that’s Martin Ling’s job, but we can openly and honestly give our views no matter how we were able to form them.

Well I do not want to have a manager who states we were unlucky and should have got something from the game, if I had watched the game and knew we were very poor and did not deserve anything from it.

I want my team’s manager to be open and honest about the team’s performance, not try and dress it into something it was not. On saying that I would not want him to start naming the players in public who he felt were to blame. I do not think that achieves anything and while it would be OK in my book to say certain players should have done better, naming and shaming should be left to the dressing room talks.

I also want the manager to explain what he sees are the problems and the measures he plans to take to get them fixed. Buckle just said the same old things over and over again and I’m sure he watched a different game sometimes that the fans watched.

I was talking to someone the other day about the staff meetings that take place where they worked. His boss used them to show up and often humiliate other staff members in front of the other ones. I think it’s different in the normal work place and such things should not happen at a staff meeting. Talk about any failings and changes that can be made to put things right and save any personal attacks for the office on a one on one.

While some may argue in any work place you become part of a team, I would argue that what might be OK to discuss in a dressing room, is not right to discuss in a staff meeting. A football team really is all about the whole team and if players are letting the whole team down, then in the dressing room it is right for those statements to be made.

That was always a gripe people had with Paul Buckle. Some fans felt he may as well have issued a recording of the same statement after every defeat because all we heard was the same thing about being unlucky and deserving more.

To extent I agree, but it depends what you see the post-match comments as being for. I'd rather work for a boss who said his staff were unlucky in public and saved what he really thought for behind closed doors. 

There is an argument that football's different and the manager needs to keep the fans on side by assuring them he knows where things are going wrong. That's fair enough to an extent, but does that extend to singling individuals out and constantly complaining that the players didn't do what they were asked to do? I don't think it does, and I agree with James that the manager is ultimately responsible for that over a sustained period.