Jon
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Post by Jon on Feb 17, 2015 0:09:59 GMT
I can confirm no Bayes nor Tabernacle amongst the list of amateur internationals. Thought not. However, there is often a grain of truth in a Luscombeism. If anything, the FA XI team that Bayes was selected for was stronger than an England Amateur team. Five of the eleven played full internationals for England and four of the others played amateur internationals for England. Only the Tottenham Hotspur centre-half Charlie Walters and our Archie were never capped. The Times 20/09/22  The Times 05/10/22  The record books don't really do Archie's TUFC career justice - showing Football League appearances in just 1927-28 and 1929-30. Bayes first played for TUFC late in the 1924/25 season and was still playing the odd game for the reserves as late as 1938. He remained an amateur throughout - hence A W C Bayes not just Bayes. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 9:48:05 GMT
Bayes must have impressed in that FA v Army match because, according to the England Football Online website, he was later selected for (but was forced to withdraw from) the FA's tour of Sweden in 1923. This involved ten matches, two of which were ultimately regarded as full internationals. The first of these was a 4-2 win for England in Stockholm: www.englandfootballonline.com/Seas1900-39/1922-23/M0135Swe1923PreEng.htmlThe squad was a mixture of amateurs and professionals and was unrecognisable from the England teams which had faced France and Belgium earlier in the summer (these also being very different to each other). Yet, had Archie played, he would have been recognised as a full international for ever more. What's the story of Archie's Torquay move? Wiki suggests he played for Ilford after leaving the RAF. Yet I wonder if he actually played for Ilford as a serving RAF officer and had caught the eye when the club won the Isthmian League in 1921 and 1922. Bayes appears to be just the sort of player an ambitious Torquay United would have chased. Yet Jon tells us Bayes remained an amateur whilst at Plainmoor. Was he a gentleman? Was there another reason for his move to South Devon? Or was there a hint of shamateurism about it? |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Feb 19, 2015 0:45:41 GMT
Bayes must have impressed in that FA v Army match because, according to the England Football Online website, he was later selected for (but was forced to withdraw from) the FA's tour of Sweden in 1923. This involved ten matches, two of which were ultimately regarded as full internationals. The first of these was a 4-2 win for England in Stockholm: www.englandfootballonline.com/Seas1900-39/1922-23/M0135Swe1923PreEng.htmlThe squad was a mixture of amateurs and professionals and was unrecognisable from the England teams which had faced France and Belgium earlier in the summer (these also being very different to each other). Yet, had Archie played, he would have been recognised as a full international for ever more. Blimey! Selected for the full England team! Mr Luscombe has been selling him short. It was reported in the Times, but escaped the optical character recognition when I searched. Times 23/04/23  Both the Belgium and France games featured men who would sign for TUFC - Dave Mercer (whose son also played for us) and John Alderson. Alderson was brought in on a month's trial in November 1930. He didn't play a first team game, and I'm not sure if he even played a reserve game. Archie Bayes did also play in an amateur international trial match in January 1920 - but at right-half!!!! Incredible but true. Times 20/01/20  What's the story of Archie's Torquay move? Wiki suggests he played for Ilford after leaving the RAF. Yet I wonder if he actually played for Ilford as a serving RAF officer and had caught the eye when the club won the Isthmian League in 1921 and 1922. Bayes appears to be just the sort of player an ambitious Torquay United would have chased. Yet Jon tells us Bayes remained an amateur whilst at Plainmoor. Was he a gentleman? Was there another reason for his move to South Devon? Or was there a hint of shamateurism about it? Archie was a proper amateur - neither a grubby professional nor a gentleman with a private income. His father was a railway signalman. Archie's job with BP brought him to South Devon. TUFC was in a very sorry way at this time. The manager Harry Raymond (England amateur international) had resigned because of the lack of money and United only carried on when the players agreed to a substantial immediate pay cut under a threat of the club being wound up immediately. The plan was purely to get through to the end of the season and it looked very unlikely that Southern League football would continue beyond that. Archie's first TUFC match was at Exeter on 11 March 1925 and the WMN reported that United divided the spoils due to brilliant goalkeeping by Bayes. Bernard Gartrell played ten of the remaining eleven league games - I would imagine that Archie did not want to be seen to nick Bernard’s place! While the England amateur team was taking on Wales at Home Park on 21 March, Archie was at Plainmoor with the reserves taking on Ilfracombe in the East Devon League. He was just short of his 29th birthday when he first played for TUFC, 34 when he made his last Football League appearance and 42 when he made his last Southern League appearance - he was a long time semi-retired. |
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