European Union: In or Out ?

As expected, my little expose on racism fell on deaf ears. Then again, if you think the entire population of the planet is stupid and beneath you, you're not going to suffer anyone trying to explain anything to you!

I'm guessing that you're one of the remainers then rjd?

I've enjoyed the Referendum debate. I've been caught out by how close the opinion polls are claiming things to be as we approach these final few days. Given the sophistication and advancements that have been made in propaganda techniques, while I assumed the great mass of the electorate was as gullible as ever, I was sure that the Establishment should have been able to build a comfortable 20% lead by now to ensure it's backing.

I also based that prediction on the broadcast media now having greater infliuence than the old print media. I was sure that the combined influence of BBC, ITV, C4 would successfully garner the votes for 'Remain'. However, even if you only analyse the newspapers, it's just The Express (with a pitifully low readership) The Sun and The Daily Mail (The Mail on Sunday has come out in favour of 'Remain' today) who are backing the 'Leave' side.

I'm still expecting that the Remain side, or 'Project Fear' as it's often also known, will get most votes on Thursday, even though my cross will be in the opposing box. Just as the Scots would have romped to Independence based on the male vote, the prolonged campaign foreseeing unemployment, isolation, no currency, (as we weren't going to let them use the pound) really does work more effectively given the natural instincts of the female voter. Months of project fear should mean that Mums, daughters, wives and grannies, when stood in that polling booth, will find it more of a struggle to vote for the option that will trigger World War Three, economic catastrophe, and the total demise of Western civilisation than we blokes with our 'Bring it on, you little liar Osborne' mentality. Whether there'll be a Sisterly or otherwise Solidarity vote sentimentally backing Jo Cox's preferred option I'm not so sure, although I did read this comment yesterday, which probably indicates the best way to view such a thing should it happen:

To be honest, if this swings the referendum then the people deserve the shafting they'll get over the next 30 years.
If enough of the population are so easily manipulated then they probably couldn't survive in an independent country anyway.

I'm particularly relaxed about the Referendum outcome having witnessed other countries being required to vote numerous times until they got it 'right', and the way E.U technocrats have been parachuted in to head up countries that tried rebelling. I just can't see that, given their track record, they'd shake hands, say cheerio and let us go our own way. Just like the Bates Motel you can probably check out, but you can never leave.....which I'll tie in with rjd's advice below

rjdgull

So many people seem to be saying things along the line of 'My postman is voting leave, and he says all those at his depot except one or two, are voting leave also'
The council manual worker is voting leave, and so are the women who work on the production line for Jacobs cream crackers. The Referendum may well be one final glorious stand by the traditional British manuel worker, before that class dies out for good. The new soft handed generation, mostly kept in classrooms until they're 18, neither want to, or will be capable of such work. The Welsh and Scots will vote 'In', as E.U cash flows in to them, the middle class with desk jobs will vote to stay in.

rjd's point would becomes really interesting in the event of a 'Leave' vote. The Civil Service, the Government, the schools and Universities, every pubic agency or body that would be tasked with determining that 'future path' towards independence is packed to the rafters with 'Remainers'. Not the best people under the circumstance I would suggest, to be the ones forging that path to our 'independent' future.

Now if the vote goes the other way and we vote to stay. Does it make the slightest difference if the working class all clip an 'I love the E.U' badge to their jackets ?  They don't make the decisions, they don't have the power, their wages will continue to be forced down by the massive influx of new cheap labour that heads into the country. If they do or if they don't join the Left in holding up big banners saying 'Welcome Migrants', nothing will change, the numbers of migrants coming here to compete for their jobs won't change. They can send a completely different set of MEP's to Brussels from Britain and nothing will change. Lose and they've lost for good. Whether they get behind the decision or whether they don't, they're finished, whereas a vote the other way and the losers would have the power to reck things totally.......and I wouldn't trust them not to.


rjdgull

 Rjd is quite right in saying that people want change. I think Cameron wanted at least some proper change that he could point to, when saying that without it he was going to struggle to win the referendum. But if it wasn't granted in those circumstances, is there really a serious case of expecting change, rather than just saying you'd like to see it one day ?

I also believed that it was conventional wisdom that whatever mistakes have been made, they certainly didn't pertain to the formation of the E.U. That enormous care, and many years were taken up in getting that exactly right, to ensure that it works in just the way it was intended to. Elected politicians can come and go, but that wouldn't interfere with the overall project of building the European super state. Those initial building blocks of formation are rock solid. I think a 'catostrophic mistake' would have been addressed long before now....the plans surrounding the formation are what they're most pleased with, are the driving power base of the E.U and haven't been nor will be touched. A little cosmetic window dressing here and there now and again for one or other of the home audiences, but nothing substantial that would involve laying a finger on those undemocratic principals of formation.

Will Thomas Mair's actions have changed the course of British history ? By Thursday will he be recognised as the most influential British person of the 21st Century so far, as we ponder whether he was responsible for setting the nation onto a different future path than the one we would otherwise have taken, had it not been for his act of murderous madness?

One thing that probably is worth remembering, if we've been subjected to this much European control when they thought we weren't too keen on their dictatorial ways, just think what a guts full we'll get when we've actually given them a mandate saying we're in favour of it .

I borrowed this from Trojan (and people think i'm strange) on the so called kiddies site. I love the bit about people who are quick to call other people racists!

I'm voting out purely because of Osbourne and Cameron's project fear! I thought terrorism was illegal!!!!!!!!!!

Stalin once said...'It's not the votes that count, it's the people counting the votes that count!'

Quite right! Results in the balance ! Probably won't be until breakfast time that we will know what's what!