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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2021 18:18:35 GMT
flyingull They do. But they're doing their reputation no good by taking so long to quash any suggestion that they would even consider throwing their weight around and behaving so unethically. The EU's ability to act in such a way hasn't been a concern, because we hadn't seriously considered they'd sink to such levels in reality ... now there's a suspicion growing that they actually might. It's up to them, but they surely realise there'd be no recovering their reputation, even in the eyes of most Remainers, if they really did start snatching or stopping other people's vaccines.
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Post by flyinggull on Jan 26, 2021 18:23:28 GMT
flyingull They do. But they're doing their reputation no good by taking so long to quash an suggestion that they would even consider throwing their weight around and behaving so unethically. The EU's ability to act in such a way hasn't been a concern, because we hadn't seriously considered they'd sink to such levels in reality ... now there's a suspicion growing that they actually might. It's up to them, but they surely realise there'd be no recovering their reputation, even in the eyes of most Remainers, if they really did start snatching or stopping other people's vaccines. You assume that the EU are willing to put the veiws of what might be above those are already citizens. If your the EU and your responsibility is to the people it governs why care abiut the small island over the water? As for reputation on a world stage im sure China would applaud such a move
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2021 18:41:24 GMT
flyingull
I think it might be a cultural difference, and so the European approach doesn’t sit comfortably with the British. Over here, if you start off behaving irresponsibly towards those who you claim to have responsibility for, by, for instance, spending your weeks wages on booze and gambling …. when you then go into Sainsbury’s brandishing a knife, giving the excuse that you are taking groceries from them as you have a responsibility to feed your wife and three children, we on this side of the pond still wouldn’t be too impressed by your behaviour.
The fact that various other criminals, pickpockets, shoplifters etc applauded your move, would do nothing to change our minds about you …. and we’d be even more pleased that we were no longer your next door neighbour.
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Post by flyinggull on Jan 26, 2021 19:19:24 GMT
flyingull I think it might be a cultural difference, and so the European approach doesn’t sit comfortably with the British. Over here, if you start off behaving irresponsibly towards those who you claim to have responsibility for, by, for instance, spending your weeks wages on booze and gambling …. when you then go into Sainsbury’s brandishing a knife, giving the excuse that you are taking groceries from them as you have a responsibility to feed your wife and three children, we on this side of the pond still wouldn’t be too impressed by your behaviour. The fact that various other criminals, pickpockets, shoplifters etc applauded your move, would do nothing to change our minds about you …. and we’d be even more pleased that we were no longer your next door neighbour. By pick pockets etc you mean governments that break international law? And if you just signed a trade deal with 2 countries one with 100m people and the other with 1 billion people which one are you going to want to show force to at the expense of the other? Anyways we running the risk of getting of topic. Wheres Manuel when we need him? Back to the virus and how boris and co are handling it.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jan 26, 2021 22:59:56 GMT
I note AJ approving of state funded medical care and government spend on social responsibilities, while criticising those that hold out for the best deal the free market might provide. On this issue I tend to agree, and would imagine criticism of the EU is an incidental bi-product of AJ’s sea change re-evaluation of political and economic principle.
While Comrade Joe appears set on a new path extolling the virtues of increased state intervention, I for one will respect his decision to freely do so at what must be an exciting time of personal transformation for him. Good for you, Joe. Good for you.
I don’t think anyone has a clue what Register is banging on about flyinggull, but many on here will know there is very little new in that.
Demand is outstripping supply whichever side of the Channel you sit right now. We are getting it into arms faster right now and hope that we continue to get enough supply to enable our great tax payer funded NHS to continue the good work that they are able to co-ordinate and do for our nation.
There’s some who’d leave universal healthcare up to the free market to decide, you know. Not AJ, of course. But we will all know some faux libertarian who thinks that way.
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Post by rjdgull on Jan 26, 2021 23:20:19 GMT
link - good article in the guardian on the present situation. The important thing is that infection rates are now coming down and the roll out of the vaccine in both the UK and Europe continues apace.
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Post by Rob on Jan 26, 2021 23:32:25 GMT
link - good article in the guardian on the present situation. The important thing is that infection rates are now coming down and the roll out of the vaccine in both the UK and Europe continues apace. I keep up with local coronavirus rates of friends, family and their environs reasonably regularly and it has been very noticeable how much reduction there has been in the last couple of weeks in those areas. Glad it’s a nationwide pattern. That is indeed an interesting read on issues with not only Astra-Zeneca, but also the very significant small reference to the Belgian produced Pfizer vaccine.
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Post by swatcat on Jan 27, 2021 2:19:14 GMT
Well this was very good to read today - Pascal Soriot of AZ, playing a very straight bat indeed regarding the distribution of vaccines :- "UK 'head start' on EU means over-50s will be vaccinated by March, AstraZeneca chief says. Comments come amid rising tension after EU threatened to block vaccine doses from leaving Continent without prior approval. . . . The UK's "head start" in rolling out vaccines before the European Union means nearly everyone aged over 50 will be inoculated by March, the AstraZeneca chief executive has said. Pascal Soriot said he believed the UK was on course to administer doses to "maybe 28 or 30 million people" within weeks – nearly half the total population – and would comfortably hit the target of vaccinating the most vulnerable groups by mid-February. It came amid rising international tension after the EU threatened to block vaccine doses from leaving the Continent without prior approval, leading Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, to accuse Brussels of "protectionism and narrow nationalism". Last week, the EU's rollout was thrown into disarray when AstraZeneca announced scheduled shipments of around 15 million doses would be delayed by manufacturing problems. On Tuesday, EU politicians accused the firm of withholding the bloc's "fair share" of doses and suggested the UK had been given preferential treatment. But Mr Soriot said the EU had been "treated fairly," adding that Britain had a three-month "head start" after agreeing a deal for 100 million doses in May, three months before the EU. He revealed that British plants had among the best yield in the world after spending months perfecting the process, while EU factories had been left with the "lowest productivity in the network"."By March, the UK will have vaccinated maybe 28 or 30 million people. The Prime Minister has a goal to vaccinate 15 million people by mid-February, and they're already at 6.5 million. So they will get there," Mr Soriot told Italian newspaper La Repubblica. Vaccinating at that rate would represent a significant acceleration, with the current NHS target to have given all 32 million over-50s their first dose by the end of April. Mr Soriot also signalled that doses manufactured in the UK would not be diverted to the Continent after EU leaders reportedly asked whether British vaccines could help make up the shortfall. "The contract with the UK was signed first and the UK, of course, said 'you supply us first' and this is fair enough," Mr Soriot said. "As soon as we can, we'll help the EU." Sources at the firm also pointed out that Italy, Germany, France and the Netherlands had reached a preliminary agreement in June, only for the EU Commission to insist on formalising the deal – which took another two months.
Asked whether the EU had left it too late, Mr Soriot replied: "I will not pass judgment on this. But I can only tell you the facts, and the facts are that we basically signed an agreement with the UK three months before we did have it with Europe. "The UK contract was signed three months before the European vaccine deal. So with the UK we have had an extra three months to fix all the glitches we experienced. As for Europe, we are three months behind in fixing those glitches. Look, the sites that have the lowest productivity in the network are the sites that are supplying Europe. One of the plants with the highest yield is in the UK because it started earlier." Sources close to AstraZeneca said dedicated supply chains had been set up for each international agreement to prevent countries squabbling over the same doses. Whitehall sources said AstraZeneca’s three UK factories would be free to supply other countries, but only when 100 million doses of the Oxford vaccine had already been delivered to this country. "This is a commercial agreement. Those doses are for us, and they will not be going anywhere until all 100 million have been delivered to the UK," one Government source said. It came amid increasing international acrimony, with Mr Hancock accusing the EU of "protectionism" by threatening to block doses from leaving Europe without prior approval. EU leaders threatened legal action after AstraZeneca unexpectedly announced on Friday it would cut supplies in the first quarter of this year, a move that would reportedly mean a 60 per cent reduction to the agreed 31 million doses. Pfizer has also announced a temporary slowdown in deliveries of its vaccine while the firm upgrades its main factory. Mr Soriot said that his firm had never made a contractual commitment to supply the doses, as Brussels has suggested. Instead, he said the company agreed to make its "best efforts" because the EU wanted to be supplied at more or less the same time as the UK, even though the contract was signed three months later. The best efforts falls short of a contractual commitment, which would weaken the EU's position were it to attempt to take legal action against AstraZeneca. Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president, said that the EU would press on with the export mechanism that would force companies to ask for permission before vaccines could leave the bloc. In a speech to the World Economic Forum in Davos, Mrs von der Leyen said: “They must honour their obligations and this is why we will set up a vaccine export to transparency mechanism.” UK officials were in talks with the EU to understand whether the move would impede supplies of the Belgian-made Pfizer vaccine, with Government sources insisting that the projected supply remained unchanged. Mr Hancock said that ministers were "confident" that supplies would not be disrupted after conversations with the chief executives of both Pfizer and AstraZeneca. He added: "But I would urge all international partners in fact to be collaborative and working closely together, and I think protectionism is not the right approach in the middle of a pandemic." Diplomatic sources also claimed AstraZeneca vaccines meant for and paid for by the EU could have ended up in Britain, suggesting that the pharmaceutical company supplied the UK from the EU vaccine stock because Britain paid a higher price for the dose and approved it sooner. However, Mr Soriot pointed out that the vaccine was being produced for no profit, and countries around the world had been charged effectively the same price. "We want to treat Europe as best we can. You know, we do this at no profit, remember?" he said. "So we would like to treat Europe as good as possible. And I actually do believe we treated Europe fairly." www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/26/britain-track-vaccinate-nearly-everyone-aged-50-march-astrazeneca/IMO well worth the read. Phew !
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2021 8:24:49 GMT
I note AJ approving of state funded medical care and government spend on social responsibilities, while criticising those that hold out for the best deal the free market might provide. On this issue I tend to agree, and would imagine criticism of the EU is an incidental bi-product of AJ’s sea change re-evaluation of political and economic principle. While Comrade Joe appears set on a new path extolling the virtues of increased state intervention, I for one will respect his decision to freely do so at what must be an exciting time of personal transformation for him. Good for you, Joe. Good for you. I don’t think anyone has a clue what Register is banging on about flyinggull, but many on here will know there is very little new in that. Demand is outstripping supply whichever side of the Channel you sit right now. We are getting it into arms faster right now and hope that we continue to get enough supply to enable our great tax payer funded NHS to continue the good work that they are able to co-ordinate and do for our nation. There’s some who’d leave universal healthcare up to the free market to decide, you know. Not AJ, of course. But we will all know some faux libertarian who thinks that way. I fully agree Rob, nobody does have a clue what I am banging on about on this site. The reason why nobody understands I explained yonks ago though. More to follow...have to take the dogs for a walk. Sorry for being such a tease. 🥰
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2021 9:21:00 GMT
...and breath...
My neighbour (Rishi’s mate) had a phone call from the Old Bill a few days ago, explaining that a long long long lost relative of his had just died in a care home. When my neighbour asked if it was of Covid they said that’s what was put on his death certificate, because it was easier to do that than bother with an autopsy!
Which is somewhat disturbing, because people could be getting away with murder...mmmmmm.🤔
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Post by flyinggull on Jan 27, 2021 10:08:10 GMT
I note AJ approving of state funded medical care and government spend on social responsibilities, while criticising those that hold out for the best deal the free market might provide. On this issue I tend to agree, and would imagine criticism of the EU is an incidental bi-product of AJ’s sea change re-evaluation of political and economic principle. While Comrade Joe appears set on a new path extolling the virtues of increased state intervention, I for one will respect his decision to freely do so at what must be an exciting time of personal transformation for him. Good for you, Joe. Good for you. I don’t think anyone has a clue what Register is banging on about flyinggull, but many on here will know there is very little new in that. Demand is outstripping supply whichever side of the Channel you sit right now. We are getting it into arms faster right now and hope that we continue to get enough supply to enable our great tax payer funded NHS to continue the good work that they are able to co-ordinate and do for our nation. There’s some who’d leave universal healthcare up to the free market to decide, you know. Not AJ, of course. But we will all know some faux libertarian who thinks that way. I fully agree Rob, nobody does have a clue what I am banging on about on this site. The reason why nobody understands I explained yonks ago though. More to follow...have to take the dogs for a walk. Sorry for being such a tease. 🥰 Tin foil at the ready for hat making
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2021 10:53:55 GMT
Rob Great stuff Rob. Your unique ability to completely misinterpret does at least provide an amusing read in these difficult times How ungrateful those citizens of the EU are …. what more can you do for them other than strive for the best deal ? But what a fascinating definition of ‘best’. As the vaccine manufacturers are rather busy right now, why doesn’t the EU enter into a deal for the vaccines to be delivered in 3 years time rather than early 2021 ….I’m sure that way they’d get a better price ? Why not just order enough vaccines for EU Commissioners, MEP’s, and assorted Eurocrats only ….that would drastically reduce the cash they’d need to shell out …. Cash that they could then redirect to more exciting projects like weapons for their new EU Army ? By this logic the second class stamp is the ‘best deal’, even if the Birthday card gets there 2 days after your Mum’s birthday. Don’t pay extra for express laundry, and if your best suit isn’t dry cleaned in time to allow you to go along to the wedding, content yourself with the knowledge that you got the ‘best deal’ on offer. Preferring to select the very bad over the utterly disastrous, when the choice is only between those two options, does not indicate ‘approval’ of the former. An elected Government mindful that it doesn’t want to get slung out on it’s ear by the electorate, will prioritize differently, and holding out for a finance orientated ‘best deal’, is a road far more open for appointed Commissioners such as Van Der Leyen or Barnier to go down. Cheaper deal, ages negotiating, delayed vaccines...so what ?, the people of the EU won’t be holding them to account at the ballot box.
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Post by flyinggull on Jan 27, 2021 12:57:28 GMT
Rob Great stuff Rob. Your unique ability to completely misinterpret does at least provide an amusing read in these difficult times How ungrateful those citizens of the EU are …. what more can you do for them other than strive for the best deal ? But what a fascinating definition of ‘best’. As the vaccine manufacturers are rather busy right now, why doesn’t the EU enter into a deal for the vaccines to be delivered in 3 years time rather than early 2021 ….I’m sure that way they’d get a better price ? Why not just order enough vaccines for EU Commissioners, MEP’s, and assorted Eurocrats only ….that would drastically reduce the cash they’d need to shell out …. Cash that they could then redirect to more exciting projects like weapons for their new EU Army ? By this logic the second class stamp is the ‘best deal’, even if the Birthday card gets there 2 days after your Mum’s birthday. Don’t pay extra for express laundry, and if your best suit isn’t dry cleaned in time to allow you to go along to the wedding, content yourself with the knowledge that you got the ‘best deal’ on offer. Preferring to select the very bad over the utterly disastrous, when the choice is only between those two options, does not indicate ‘approval’ of the former. An elected Government mindful that it doesn’t want to get slung out on it’s ear by the electorate, will prioritize differently, and holding out for a finance orientated ‘best deal’, is a road far more open for appointed Commissioners such as Van Der Leyen or Barnier to go down. Cheaper deal, ages negotiating, delayed vaccines...so what ?, the people of the EU won’t be holding them to account at the ballot box. And yet with the measures EU members have taken (lockdowns and others early on) they still have a lower death rate then the UK.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2021 13:38:40 GMT
apple.news/AhnWB2tuPScGqLACDkZiqBAAnd still the government don’t know the answer! There’s Boris hanging his head and wondering how the hell did this monumental cock-up happen? And of course anyone with an ounce of nous knows the answer! 🙄
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Post by stefano on Jan 27, 2021 14:17:30 GMT
And yet with the measures EU members have taken (lockdowns and others early on) they still have a lower death rate then the UK. Well they have but there is still a considerable number of deaths within the EU countries. The UK has so far 100,162 covid deaths. Italy locked down very quickly and more strictly than the UK but still has 87000 deaths so far and no doubt will pass 100,000. France has 75,000. Spain has 57000. Germany has 54000. The interesting thing for me about the response to covid within the EU was that in respect of border closures and lockdowns due to covid the countries within the EU acted as sovereign states, the very excuse our sabre rattling brexiteers used for wanting to get out of it! I am sure that mistakes have been made by governments and scientists right across the world during this unscheduled crisis, but it is about time Smarmy Starmer stopped trying to score cheap political points during this time of national crisis. Well done to the government in getting well ahead of the rest of the world in ordering, approving, and rolling out the vaccine programme.
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