Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 1, 2009 9:19:04 GMT
Benyon sure knows where the goal is and I think most fans feel he is the most natural finisher at the club. Do we put him on from the start of every game, as he should get some chances in the game and if he was not on, our chances of scoring would be less?
Or do we not start him, but use him as the super sub he seems to be, not sure of his goal stats like how many he has as a starter and how many as a sub.
My view is in the games I have seen him start he has not always had too much effect on the game and at times looked just a bit weak. As a sub he has had much more impact on the game and the result, is it because the players out on the pitch are getting a bit tired and a fresh Benyon is able to match them a bit more because of it?
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Mar 1, 2009 9:40:39 GMT
Out of his eleven goals, only four have come from starting the match - Woking, Altrinham and Eastbourne (2). Not exactly top class opposition. Eleven starts and twenty substitution appearances equates to 0.36 and 0.35 goals per game respectively. Although I haven't got the stats for minutes spent on the pitch as a starter / sub, many of those sub appearances were for the last few minutes and therefore he is much more likely to score when he comes on as an impact player later in the match! This is borne out by the perception that he seems to be out muscled on a regular basis. Maybe as a "fox in the box" type player, coming on later suits him as he has more energy and running to get into those goal scoring positions?  |
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 1, 2009 10:09:14 GMT
He's the most natural goal-scrorer at the club. How many other clubs up and down the country voluntarily leave their biggest goal threat out of the team every week i wonder? I don't know why these issues get so complicated (which i'm sure some will suggest is why i'm not a manager). I always thought football was meant to be a simple game...
Besides it's not just goals that he brings to the side. His energy and enthusiasm is visibly rejuvenating to his team-mates, and i don't think he's nearly as 'weak' as gets suggested. His control is superb, and considering his size, isn't knocked off the ball as easily as some suggest.
If the quality of his performance was vastly different when coming off the bench, i could understand this argument. But has he really started enough games for us to be sure either way? Until he's given a decent opportunity in the starting 11, it's impossible to tell. I think he's due the chance to show us one way or the other.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 1, 2009 10:21:09 GMT
Fonda, you do not need to be a manager to have views, you watch enough games and have eyes like everyone else, as I have said before your views are as valid as any other on the forum.
That said you do make a good point that unless Benyon is given a chance to start more games we really won't know the answer, I only base my views on the games he has started and I felt he struggled in some of them, mainly due to not being so physical as Green say.
He does have good control and in one game at home recently I was really impressed with how he was able to bring the ball down and get it under control. Lets not forget he did start against Kettering and many of the views I read on here, felt that due to the size of the defenders he was up against, that maybe he should not have started the game.
Does Bucks have to pick his forward line based on the size and strength of the other teams defense? I believe he has to take that into consideration and that may be a reason Benyon will not be a sure starter despite his goal record.
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 1, 2009 10:29:03 GMT
Fonda, you do not need to be a manager to have views, you watch enough games and have eyes like everyone else, as I have said before your views are as valid as any other on the forum. That said you do make a good point that unless Benyon is given a chance to start more games we really won't know the answer, I only base my views on the games he has started and I felt he struggled in some of them, mainly due to not being so physical as Green say. He does have good control and in one game at home recently I was really impressed with how he was able to bring the ball down and get it under control. [glow=red,2,300]Lets not forget he did start against Kettering and many of the views I read on here, felt that due to the size of the defenders he was up against, that maybe he should not have started the game.[/glow] Does Bucks have to pick his forward line based on the size and strength of the other teams defense? I believe he has to take that into consideration and that may be a reason Benyon will not be a sure starter despite his goal record. I'm sure you're right Dave, and the size of the opposition defnders will dictate whether Benyon starts. In which case Benners is destined to be a sub forever and a day, because most teams have big centre-halfs. So how have small strikers managed in the past? My view is that if you were to ask these big strapping (in some cases part-time) centre-halfs which 'threat' they are most comfortable playing against, they'd say high balls into the strikers i imagine. Even the most limited of defenders can win an aerial battle. What (i imagine) they don't want to face are strikers with some pace and a degree of guile. So perhaps there is a suggestion that playing Benyon against Kettering was exactly the right decision, had the service to him been the right kind? With Wroe becoming an increasing influence in the middle of the pitch, and the ability to play the through balls which take these defenders into areas they don't want to be, Benyon is the right man to take advantage. He might well prove not to be so, but i think he deserves the chance to try. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 1, 2009 12:36:37 GMT
I have now put a poll on this thread so you can cast your vote on this subject.
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Post by jmgull on Mar 1, 2009 12:51:03 GMT
...I think Fonda makes a valid point that unless Elliott has a decent run in the side, that we will never know, the recent evidence does suggest though that his best and most fruitful performances come from the bench.
He has definitely improved his all round game......not convinced however, that he will suddenly make the position of Sills' partner his own, not this season, anyway.
The problem with Elliott is that he doesnt quite posess one of the main attributes in abundance needed to be a succesful striker in the pro game, anticipation, quickness of thought, quickness of feet, heading ability, power or pace. Yes, if a chance is laid on in the box you would back him above the rest of our strikers to hit the target, has Elliott got enough in his locker to create a chance from nothing in a tight game against a good side........not convinced he has.....yet.
Lee Phillips had the power, Tim Sills has the heading ability, Matt Green has the pace (and the power, maybe), I believe that the further that you go up the leagues the more of these attributes you need........in order to make a career even at this level you need to have at least ONE of the above in abundance.
Elliott is quickish but certainly not as quick as Green or Carayol, he needs another half a yard of pace to really worry defences, his anticipation is ok, as his quickness of thought/feet......because of his size he'll never be dominant in the air, power will come with hard work.
Buckle describes Elliott in todays indy as a developing player, i think he's got it dead right.
Apart from a cool head in front of goal he hasnt been blessed with enough natural ability of the other abilities needed, if he continues to work hard at the other areas.....he has a decent chance of a good career.
For me, its Sills and Green this season with Benyon off the bench.
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 1, 2009 13:02:39 GMT
I think your evaluation of him is pretty accurate JM, and make some interesting observations. Sills certainly is stronger and better in the air. Green is definitely quicker too. But where Benyon is superior to everyone else at the club is that he comes alive in and around the penalty area. He has that rare talent of finding space and knowing instinctively where the ball will fall and the chance will present itself. Importantly, he's also very adept at hitting the target and taking those chances.
He probably doesn't yet possess all the attributes which would enable him to create the chances for himself, and for this reason is reliant on decent service. So whether he starts games is in large part dependant on the trust the manager has in those around him to create the chances. For this reason, i can understand to a degree why Bucks doesn't start him regularly. The wide-men simply haven't been creating the kind of chances Benyon would feed off. If the delivery is good, he's the man you want on the end of them. It seems Elliot's chances of starting games are somewhat reliant on certain others upping their game. If they can't, his immediate future remains on the bench. Unfotunately.
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Post by jmgull on Mar 1, 2009 13:10:01 GMT
The wide-men simply haven't been creating the kind of chances Benyon would feed off. If the delivery is good, he's the man you want on the end of them. I think Elliot is somewhat reliant on certain others upping their game. If they can't, his immediate future remains on the bench. Unfotunately. ...Totally agree (this is becoming a habit for me and you  ) I guess wingers and playmakers that can regulary lay chances on a plate aren't generally plying their trade at this level. Another sad fact of losing one's league status i'm afraid. |
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 1, 2009 13:14:42 GMT
The wide-men simply haven't been creating the kind of chances Benyon would feed off. If the delivery is good, he's the man you want on the end of them. I think Elliot is somewhat reliant on certain others upping their game. If they can't, his immediate future remains on the bench. Unfotunately. ... Totally agree (this is becoming a habit for me and you ) I guess wingers and playmakers that can regulary lay chances on a plate aren't generally plying their trade at this level. Another sad fact of losing one's league status i'm afraid. Seems to be.  It's unfortunate Carlisle hasn't quite provided the service Bucks (and many of us) thought he would. And the lack of a left-footed winger on the opposite flank has also caused us problems in this respect. |
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