Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2008 22:57:34 GMT
Jon alerted us to the TUFC history site - www.tufchistory.com – in a recent thread and it really does contain some excellent material that isn’t found elsewhere. Here are a few things I found which may prompt memories and spark discussion.
Friendlies
We tend to dismiss friendlies. They’re not recorded in official records, they are very much for the moment and (usually) soon forgotten. Bristol Rovers at home this year, away to Tiverton, it’s all a blur. But look at the site more carefully and there are a few gems:
- Manchester United at home in 1972. 0-0 in front of 15,144. Yep, I was there. Am I right that a South Devon League player came on as a late sub?
- Blackburn Rovers 1955. Bit before my time but this was when Stanley Matthews guested for Torquay. Anybody there?
- November 1953: 11-0 victory as part of the St Just Feast Day celebrations. What was that all about?
- Wins against Manchester United and Nottingham Forest 1981/82. I was away from the area but understand these were fair occasions. Were these games as good as I’m led to believe?
- Red Star Belgrade and Pumas (Mexico) 1990. The early days of Mike Bateson when there was a hint of glamour and excitement about the place. Red Star went on to win the European Cup that season.
Testimonials
How many more of these will we see? Nowadays they are usually set-up around a pre-season friendly but, in the past, they were normally at the end of the season. My first was Terry Adlington’s in 1966 - the programme billed it as a South Devon Selected XI v Arsenal, refereed by MW Benney of Torquay. Maybe it’s because I was only 10-years-old but it’s my favourite testimonial.
They’ve been a mixed bag over the years. Not sure what made me sadder: the sheer embarrassment of the Wes Saunders/Gazza/Five Bellies “show” or the fact that, around the same time, poor old Tom Kelly’s testimonial drew a crowd of 900 (rather than Wes’s 5,700).
Not a testimonial, but I saw the Goaldiggers XI v Saudi Arabia match in 1976 which was plain odd (and linked to Jimmy Hill’s involvement with Saudi football).
Overseas Tours
It’s good to see the 1967 German tour recorded as I was thinking it was a figment of my imagination. How did that come about? Again it was a time of glamour and adventure at the club. I rather suspect Bayer Leverkusen have come on a bit since then.
The 1990s Irish tours were through the Don O’Riordan connection. I had the pleasure of going on the 1994 version when we stayed at a seminary at Maynooth and most of the drunks on the Holyhead ferry came from Hele. The game against Cherry Orchard, played in a park in Ballyfermot (not Dublin’s best quarter), must count as one of the most bizarre TUFC experiences.
Reserves and “A” team
We’re probably unlikely to see Saturday reserve team football again – times have changed – but I used to love reserve games as a kid in the late 1960s. I wonder what the crowds were? One memory is seeing Paddy Roche, who never played for the first team but went on to appear in goal for Manchester United and Ireland, concede six against Glastonbury. That was in the Western League whereas years before the Reserves played in the Southern League playing teams like Bedford, Dartford, Chelmsford and Hastings. In those pre-Conference days it meant our reserve team was playing in the top flight of non-league football.
As for Torquay United “A”, I just about remember the results appearing in the programme and the Herald. The TUFC History site reminds us that they dominated South Devon League football in the early 1960s. This was an all-amateur team of the best local players, something that is absolutely inconceivable now. I believe the same happened at Plymouth and Exeter.
Together with a sprinkling of local amateurs in the Reserves – apparently some players made several hundred appearances at this level – there must be many cases of locally-born fans (of a certain age) who played for the club for years.
Attendances
Not on the history site but a few things to add in the wake of the debate on another thread.
Let’s face it, we’ve never been particularly well-supported. Nearly 11,000 for that first league game in 1927 but the average for that season was no more than 4,000. Through the 1930s we averaged between 3,500 and 5,000, settling down to being one of the three worst-supported teams in the run up to the war.
Then came the post-war attendance boom throughout English football. For 12 seasons from 1946/47 Torquay United averaged crowds of at least 6,000 (maybe that’s why we still have so many fans of a certain vintage?). Crowds were bigger everywhere of course – in 1948/49 every team in the league averaged at least 6,000 – but we were usually 12/15 places off the bottom of the attendance charts (much above our usual level).
The highest average didn’t come until 1967/68 – 9,096. The game was enjoying a boom after the 1966 World Cup but the remarkable thing about that season was that Torquay United was the 52nd best-supported team in the League (of 92) – and 53rd the following season. Those were my first two years at secondary school and it did seem like every other kid watched TUFC. Rare times indeed.
Later, the nemeses of 1985/86 when we averaged 1,240. The Webb Years and, living 300 miles away, I wasn’t amongst that number (usually moonlighting at Everton who were rather more successful in those days). But again context is needed because this is when attendances throughout England reached an all-time low. A quarter of the league’s membership averaged under 3,000; nine fewer than 2,000 (including Exeter City).
Friendlies
We tend to dismiss friendlies. They’re not recorded in official records, they are very much for the moment and (usually) soon forgotten. Bristol Rovers at home this year, away to Tiverton, it’s all a blur. But look at the site more carefully and there are a few gems:
- Manchester United at home in 1972. 0-0 in front of 15,144. Yep, I was there. Am I right that a South Devon League player came on as a late sub?
- Blackburn Rovers 1955. Bit before my time but this was when Stanley Matthews guested for Torquay. Anybody there?
- November 1953: 11-0 victory as part of the St Just Feast Day celebrations. What was that all about?
- Wins against Manchester United and Nottingham Forest 1981/82. I was away from the area but understand these were fair occasions. Were these games as good as I’m led to believe?
- Red Star Belgrade and Pumas (Mexico) 1990. The early days of Mike Bateson when there was a hint of glamour and excitement about the place. Red Star went on to win the European Cup that season.
Testimonials
How many more of these will we see? Nowadays they are usually set-up around a pre-season friendly but, in the past, they were normally at the end of the season. My first was Terry Adlington’s in 1966 - the programme billed it as a South Devon Selected XI v Arsenal, refereed by MW Benney of Torquay. Maybe it’s because I was only 10-years-old but it’s my favourite testimonial.
They’ve been a mixed bag over the years. Not sure what made me sadder: the sheer embarrassment of the Wes Saunders/Gazza/Five Bellies “show” or the fact that, around the same time, poor old Tom Kelly’s testimonial drew a crowd of 900 (rather than Wes’s 5,700).
Not a testimonial, but I saw the Goaldiggers XI v Saudi Arabia match in 1976 which was plain odd (and linked to Jimmy Hill’s involvement with Saudi football).
Overseas Tours
It’s good to see the 1967 German tour recorded as I was thinking it was a figment of my imagination. How did that come about? Again it was a time of glamour and adventure at the club. I rather suspect Bayer Leverkusen have come on a bit since then.
The 1990s Irish tours were through the Don O’Riordan connection. I had the pleasure of going on the 1994 version when we stayed at a seminary at Maynooth and most of the drunks on the Holyhead ferry came from Hele. The game against Cherry Orchard, played in a park in Ballyfermot (not Dublin’s best quarter), must count as one of the most bizarre TUFC experiences.
Reserves and “A” team
We’re probably unlikely to see Saturday reserve team football again – times have changed – but I used to love reserve games as a kid in the late 1960s. I wonder what the crowds were? One memory is seeing Paddy Roche, who never played for the first team but went on to appear in goal for Manchester United and Ireland, concede six against Glastonbury. That was in the Western League whereas years before the Reserves played in the Southern League playing teams like Bedford, Dartford, Chelmsford and Hastings. In those pre-Conference days it meant our reserve team was playing in the top flight of non-league football.
As for Torquay United “A”, I just about remember the results appearing in the programme and the Herald. The TUFC History site reminds us that they dominated South Devon League football in the early 1960s. This was an all-amateur team of the best local players, something that is absolutely inconceivable now. I believe the same happened at Plymouth and Exeter.
Together with a sprinkling of local amateurs in the Reserves – apparently some players made several hundred appearances at this level – there must be many cases of locally-born fans (of a certain age) who played for the club for years.
Attendances
Not on the history site but a few things to add in the wake of the debate on another thread.
Let’s face it, we’ve never been particularly well-supported. Nearly 11,000 for that first league game in 1927 but the average for that season was no more than 4,000. Through the 1930s we averaged between 3,500 and 5,000, settling down to being one of the three worst-supported teams in the run up to the war.
Then came the post-war attendance boom throughout English football. For 12 seasons from 1946/47 Torquay United averaged crowds of at least 6,000 (maybe that’s why we still have so many fans of a certain vintage?). Crowds were bigger everywhere of course – in 1948/49 every team in the league averaged at least 6,000 – but we were usually 12/15 places off the bottom of the attendance charts (much above our usual level).
The highest average didn’t come until 1967/68 – 9,096. The game was enjoying a boom after the 1966 World Cup but the remarkable thing about that season was that Torquay United was the 52nd best-supported team in the League (of 92) – and 53rd the following season. Those were my first two years at secondary school and it did seem like every other kid watched TUFC. Rare times indeed.
Later, the nemeses of 1985/86 when we averaged 1,240. The Webb Years and, living 300 miles away, I wasn’t amongst that number (usually moonlighting at Everton who were rather more successful in those days). But again context is needed because this is when attendances throughout England reached an all-time low. A quarter of the league’s membership averaged under 3,000; nine fewer than 2,000 (including Exeter City).
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What at Highweek BOYS School? 