Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
|
Post by Dave on Oct 5, 2008 13:21:27 GMT
Well tufc01, you sure told It how you saw it and most I have to agree with, there are good reasons why he was put on the list and yes he did let Ant down(but that Is not the reason ;D)I was surprised that he started ahead Of Carayol, but maybe two games in a week, Bucks just rested Carayol.
|
|
|
|
Post by capitalgull on Oct 5, 2008 13:34:17 GMT
And that's just the kind of comment that is going to give him the confidence to try and improve his performances isn't it.
What a pathetic response to someone trying to be positive about a player's performance - to shoot him down, call him a wimp, and hope he buggers off to some other poor unsuspecting team.
This is the main reason I decided to quit this forum a few weeks ago, and only returned this week - player baiting, poster baiting (and yes I realise I was guilty of that with one of my comments yesterday about the 3/10 score) and general negativeness.
Even when we win 3-0 against the pre-season favourites, someone has to come out and find something negative to say about somebody - be they on the pitch or off it.
Obviously, Dsane is destined to become the next Wayne Carlisle now he has to play in front of the Popular Side for 45 minutes if he carries on in a wing role. It's pure pettiness picking out three (wow three) pieces of mis-control in 88 minutes when Carayol mis-controlled three times in two minutes (plus injury time) and spent all of his time going backwards to try and make up for his own mistakes (and failing).
Like Paul Buckle said, Roscoe was used in the role because of his strength, and I thought his hold-up play was superb. He often brought Kevin Nicholson into the game with sensible passes, and no one has picked out the fact that Nicho had his best game defensively this season because of Dsane's impact on the left - did you notice how many times Stevenage's right-winger got into a dangerous forward position - correct, none, because half the time he was back in his own half trying to double-cover Roscoe. That gave Nicho extra time on the ball to deliver some of those sweet angled balls over to Carlisle, and he was rarely rushed because the right-winger was so withdrawn.
Who was first to try and dive headlong for a Carlisle cross early on, just failing to get a touch after sprinting in from his left-wing position? Was it one of the strikers? No it was Roscoe with the rest of his team-mates nowhere near.
I'm not saying it was a mistake-free performance, because no one ever manages that, but for crying out loud was he really thatbad to deserve the criticism he is getting here? Not a chance of it, and I would imagine those who gave him a standing ovation in the main stand would agree with me. Granted less than gave Green an ovation as well, but there were plenty, and I haven't see Green getting any stick for missing just as many chances.
Can't people ever just get through a game without trying to find someone to pick on?
Beginning to seem that way, so I am going back to lurking again because there is just no pleasing some people, and obviously going back and dredging up all the personal abuse towards Roscoe from weeks ago is just plain stupid!
|
|
Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
|
Post by Dave on Oct 5, 2008 13:42:47 GMT
Andy sorry you feel that way mate, but a great post anyway and the forum needs balanced views so I hope you keep posting. The player did let his sponsor down, but he was upset at being taken of at half time, so at least getting upset and leaving the ground, shows he was hurt and therefore must care.
|
|
|
|
Post by capitalgull on Oct 5, 2008 13:50:31 GMT
I defy anyone to say Roscoe doesn't care. He moved his young family to the Bay this summer to try and make a go of it with OUR football club (to borrow a Merse tactic) and turned down moves away because he feels he can offer something to TUFC. Yet all he gets is abuse So why can people just not get behind him? Does there always have to be a scapegoat? Where's Dave Shaw? What is the meaning of life? Why do I get wound up talking about TUFC? and many other questions!  |
|
Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
|
Post by Dave on Oct 5, 2008 13:57:03 GMT
Andy you know everyone will always see games and player performances so differently. Some said Mansell was poor yesterday, I thought he was great and worked so hard.
So we just share our views on here and we will never agree with everyone, keep smiling mate, the team Is on the up and thats all we really need to concern ourselves with.
|
|
AR10
TFF member
Torquay Fans Forum Manager
Posts: 238
|
Post by AR10 on Oct 5, 2008 14:03:23 GMT
I don't care how poor someone plays as we all have off days but the player needs to be seen to be giving 100% committment to the team,if he gives this then he will be forgiven for playing poor. Roscoe did not give 100% yesterday & that's what people are trying to get across. In my opinion Kevin Hill was a mediocre player but as he always gave 100% week in & week out this made up for his lack of ability & why he was loved so much by the fans.
|
|
tufc01
TFF member
Posts: 1,179
|
Post by tufc01 on Oct 5, 2008 14:04:21 GMT
There has already been lots of match reports and players ratings etc so i just want to add a few observations i saw from yesterday.
Did anyone notice how well Wayne Carlisle tracked back and defended yesterday. In the first 15 minutes alone he made 3 excellent tackles that if missed could have let Stevenage through on goal. I thought he had an excellent game and always looks for the ball and looks threatening. Great cross for the goal.
Wroe was outstanding throughout the game, he really has come on in the last few weeks. His partnership with Hargreaves is really looking strong. Seems his signing, much maligned early in the season, is turning out to be very astute.
Hargreaves is awesome in midfield right now, him and Wroe are starting to dominate games.
Bevan looks very imposing and pulled off an outstanding save in the second half. Would be a great addition to the squad in January.
I cant get my head around Woods, one minute he is awful (Wrexham) then he is awesome (Yesterday). Like i said in my Wrexham match report, when he is good he is very good, but when he is bad... Yesterday it was definitely a good day.
Robertson really impressed me, he looks like he could flourish in that position. It now looks like an embarrassment of riches at centre half, with Ellis looking very good before his injury and Todd as well.
Mansell must cover just about every blade of grass, what a committed player. Prone to the odd mistake, but more than makes up for it with some of his challenges. Also links up really well with Carlisle.
Green another who impressed, another who is starting to gel and pick up the performances.
Full marks to Paul Buckle and his backroom TEAM. Their summer signings are starting to look the dogs balls, with the exception of Brough, who we haven’t seen. The tactics and formations have been spot on. It is obvious that there has been a lot of hard work put in on the training ground, which is starting to pay dividends. I feel we are starting to play as well as we did last year. The team looks full of confidence and the performance have been very dominant. Its hard to see who we should fear in this league at the moment. Although its to early to be talking of promotion, i feel that we have our destiny in our own hands.
|
|
|
|
Post by capitalgull on Oct 5, 2008 14:07:22 GMT
I don't care how poor someone plays as we all have off days but the player needs to be seen to be giving 100% committment to the team,if he gives this then he will be forgiven for playing poor. Roscoe did not give 100% yesterday & that's what people are trying to get across. In my opinion Kevin Hill was a mediocre player but as he always gave 100% week in & week out this made up for his lack of ability & why he was loved so much by the fans. I didn't see much in his performance yesterday that showed a lack of commitment at all - obviously I am banging my head against a brick wall here so I'll stop trying to defend Roscoe now. Thanks for all the kind comments  |
|
Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
|
Post by Dave on Oct 5, 2008 14:13:30 GMT
Andy those are your views and fully respected mate, you are not wrong just because others disagree and if that Is how you saw him play yesterday, then stick with you views.
Don't let It get you upset, we are all friends here, but like I said will often see things differently.
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by chipnicker1 on Oct 5, 2008 14:25:54 GMT
And that's just the kind of comment that is going to give him the confidence to try and improve his performances isn't it. What a pathetic response to someone trying to be positive about a player's performance - to shoot him down, call him a wimp, and hope he buggers off to some other poor unsuspecting team. This is the main reason I decided to quit this forum a few weeks ago, and only returned this week - player baiting, poster baiting (and yes I realise I was guilty of that with one of my comments yesterday about the 3/10 score) and general negativeness. Even when we win 3-0 against the pre-season favourites, someone has to come out and find something negative to say about somebody - be they on the pitch or off it. Obviously, Dsane is destined to become the next Wayne Carlisle now he has to play in front of the Popular Side for 45 minutes if he carries on in a wing role. It's pure pettiness picking out three (wow three) pieces of mis-control in 88 minutes when Carayol mis-controlled three times in two minutes (plus injury time) and spent all of his time going backwards to try and make up for his own mistakes (and failing). Like Paul Buckle said, Roscoe was used in the role because of his strength, and I thought his hold-up play was superb. He often brought Kevin Nicholson into the game with sensible passes, and no one has picked out the fact that Nicho had his best game defensively this season because of Dsane's impact on the left - did you notice how many times Stevenage's right-winger got into a dangerous forward position - correct, none, because half the time he was back in his own half trying to double-cover Roscoe. That gave Nicho extra time on the ball to deliver some of those sweet angled balls over to Carlisle, and he was rarely rushed because the right-winger was so withdrawn. Who was first to try and dive headlong for a Carlisle cross early on, just failing to get a touch after sprinting in from his left-wing position? Was it one of the strikers? No it was Roscoe with the rest of his team-mates nowhere near. I'm not saying it was a mistake-free performance, because no one ever manages that, but for crying out loud was he really thatbad to deserve the criticism he is getting here? Not a chance of it, and I would imagine those who gave him a standing ovation in the main stand would agree with me. Granted less than gave Green an ovation as well, but there were plenty, and I haven't see Green getting any stick for missing just as many chances. Can't people ever just get through a game without trying to find someone to pick on? Beginning to seem that way, so I am going back to lurking again because there is just no pleasing some people, and obviously going back and dredging up all the personal abuse towards Roscoe from weeks ago is just plain stupid! Capitalgull, as someone who doesn’t tend to write match reports, Dave R mentioned to me at the game that I should write one. So after yesterday’s game I decided that I would do a quick post about how I would rate the players – not only on the football front but on all round performance (passion included). Ever since Dsane was put on the emergency loan list he has looked a lot less passionate about wearing a TUFC shirt. Whilst this may be understandable, it must be difficult to play for a team where your future is uncertain, surely he WANTS to be playing his heart out and showing the kind of commitment that (I believe) gets Benyon on the pitch. If you look through all of my posts you will see that not once have I branded a TUFC performance ‘disappointing’. I do not even leave comments on here about poor games, for example, through our little ‘rough spell’. I do not want an award. I just do not appreciate comments like “Can't people ever just get through a game without trying to find someone to pick on?”. Yesterday I simply gave my OWN opinions on the game. I even stated before I wrote them that “obviously not everyone will agree with me”. The forum is all about opinions and airing your thoughts on the game – and accepting other people’s views. It seems you have found it hard to accept my views that in my opinion Dsane was poor yesterday. I could’ve easily said I was going to stop posting on the forum after your comment aimed directly towards me yesterday regarding Dave’s No.1 (a running joke between me and Dave) – However, forums are all about banter and balanced views and I knew that throwing in the towel is just the easy way out. I am not ‘picking on’ Dsane, I am just airing my opinion on the players ratings. There have been times I have felt he has played very well, but yesterday personally I felt he did not. Again this is MY view and I completely understand other’s may see this differently. If you read my post carefully you will also notice I said Dsane “did make some good passes”, a reference to the passes which brought Nico into the game and yes like you said created fantastic chances for Carlisle. |
|
rjdgull
TFF member
Admin
Posts: 12,227 
|
Post by rjdgull on Oct 5, 2008 14:39:58 GMT
In respect of Dsane, wondered what the hell he was doing playing on the left wing and put it down to Buckle's habit of playing a striker there!
I was sitting in the family stand slightly nearer to the Grandstand side so cannot comment on his first half performance in respect of tackles etc. ( Did notice Dsane being fouled when Stevenage player on the floor but nothing was given - no-one has commented on this but looked clear cut from 3/4 length of the pitch away ;D)
However was very impressed with his work rate in the second half and couldn't fault his play in this sector of the ground. Seemed to get a lot of the ball as well so his team mates must have had some confidence. Maybe it is a matter of perspective from your view point in the ground or maybe it was really a game of two halves for him or maybe it just comes down to your opinion.
Out of interest I thought one of Dsane's best performances on the wing last season was against Oxford so don't rule him out!
|
|
Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
|
Post by Dave on Oct 5, 2008 14:40:11 GMT
Dave’s No.1 (a running joke between me and Dave) well chips dear girl I might need to drop you down the order a bit ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by capitalgull on Oct 5, 2008 14:40:25 GMT
Chipnicker - the comments you have quoted there are not in relation completely to your post...I believe it was one from 'tufc01' that provoked my original response although I commented positively on Roscoe's performance in my own match report.
I agree 100% with your comments about forums, and not everyone being of the same opinion, for if they were the world would be such a boring place.
But I still think giving 3/10 to a player who created so many chances for himself with strong and powerful running from a position he has no history of playing in, was an insult to a professional footballer who I personally saw nothing less than full commitment from. Sure, mark him as the worst player on the field if you want to, but 3/10 just seems to be an over-reaction. Maybe it's all those years of reading Match magazine where any player getting 3/10 had been sent off - 4/10 was the minimum mark in those days and I seem to recall that being the mark for a pathetic performance, which Roscoe's definitely was not.
It just makes me wonder whether in 30 years of watching football, and 10 years writing about it professionally, I have become too over analytical of player performances and maybe I should just judge it on end-product, some of which was a disappointment yesterday I will admit.
I am just stunned at people questioning his commitment - and stunned is the right word on this occasion. If people (not necessarily you) decide to pick on others, then people still have the right to defend him.
Who knows if he will be in the side on Thursday, but I hope if he is fans will get behind him 100%!
|
|
Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
|
Post by Dave on Oct 5, 2008 14:46:56 GMT
Good and fair reply Andy and I think If he Is in the side on Thursday, ever single fan will give him their complete support, as he wears the shirt for our team.
I would hope that he was picked and got a goal or two, there is no better way to get the fans on your side, than scoring the winning goal.
|
|
merse
TFF member
Posts: 2,684
|
Post by merse on Oct 5, 2008 16:01:42 GMT
How important was that injury time winner against Northwich? Indeed it was very Important, and to think I was stood next to two 'fans' who were disgusted when the linesman gave that penalty and proceeded to let everybody around them know that "it was the worst thing that could possibly of happened to TUFC"  You see this perfectly illustrates the agenda, vindictiveness and bile that has been directed at Paul Buckle over a concerted period of time from people who simply could not contain their failure to cope with the loss of bragging rights when we lost all at the end of last season and had the insult of Exeter City succeeding instead of us to add to injury. Led by Dave Shaw on this site and the ridiculous "Bobby" on .net ably assisted by "Brucie", they have all gone remarkably quiet now that the manager has proved he can get the squad playing his way and be successfull into the bargain. Certain folk are never happy unless they are unhappy (if that makes sense) and I would like to ask those taking Roscoe Dsane to task if they are aware of the precise managerial instructions he was playing to yesterday, and whether they are party to the possible effects he has to cope with EVERY match as a result of the re-constructive surgery to his shoulder in the summer and the even more extensive re-building of his knee just two years ago? I haven't particularly noticed Roscoe to be a "bottler" whenever I have seen him play, although I would concede that his first touch and shooting leave a bit to be desired but rather they display a certain "lack of confidence" in a player who has yet to perform at the levels I once saw him achieve earlier in his career. I'm sure a lot of his "shortcomings" will disappear should he regain that confidence, but of course the likelihood of that is diminished when he is loudly harangued and catcalled from the terraces. I've spoken to many an ex pro' (going right back to old timers like Gordon Astall) of the heartache of trying to do a professional job to the best of their ability whilst restricted by the constraints of their mobility and getting the brickbats and "advice" of "terrace smart arses".Is a player not giving one hundred per cent of what HE can manage, or what YOU expect? I don't believe for one moment that Paul Buckle would countenance accepting anything less than one hundred per cent of what a player can manage, but that does not mean the player can necessarily manage one hundred per cent as the fans perceive it given the enormous discrepancy between what the manager knows and what the fans think they know. |
|
