Jon
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Post by Jon on Jul 20, 2009 22:40:15 GMT
And here's something for Jon and a reminder of the strength of the Exeter and (East) Devon League in the days before any Devon club played in the Western League. Those are all 1st XIs and you'll see good old Newton Spurs riding high. Is that other Newton team from Newton Abbot or Newton St Cyres? Well I hope he has success in tracking down old tables. It seems easy to find Plymouth and District League and Torquay and District League tables, but those for the East Devon League (forerunner of the Devon and Exeter League) are very hard to come by. I've seen tables for when our reserves were in the league in 1924/25 and 1925/26 and when Babbacombe were in the league in 1908/09. Torquay United played in the league for four seasons 1900 to 1904, had to sit out 1904/05 as the pitch at Torquay (now Barton) Cricket Club was too small, completed another two seasons 1905/07 and then appear to have withdrawn part way through the 1907/08 season. I would love to see league tables for those seasons.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 10:14:19 GMT
I'm not sure how much more Jon now knows about the early days of the East Devon League than in 2009 when he started this thread. In the intervening period the Devon and Exeter League appears to have put this general history on its website: defleague.co.uk/league-data/history/With this list of league champions: defleague.co.uk/league-data/history/premier-league-champions/The Devon & Exeter League has been in the news recently for applying for Step 7 status. This would put it on a par with the SW Peninsula League Div 1(E). There's been discussion as to whether this is in rivalry to the Peninsula League or more as a means of accessing additional funding from the FA. The D&E is reminding potential applicants that, as per existing league rules, they can come from anywhere in Devon or within fifty miles of Exeter. The first impact would be no reserve teams in the D&E's premier division. The Peninsula League is considering running a reserve section as a consequence. This could have the knock-on effect of attracting higher-grade reserve teams from the South Devon League.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Nov 17, 2014 23:38:11 GMT
I'm not sure how much more Jon now knows about the early days of the East Devon League than in 2009 when he started this thread. Quite a bit! I have been in touch with Collin Goodwin and we have compared notes. Collin has assembled a massive collection of old handbooks for various East Devon leagues. Our Sam was keen to do something similar for South Devon, but I don't know if he has had any joy. There was a league in East Devon in 1899/1900 (no Torquay United), but this was an Eastern section of the Plymouth-based Devon Senior League - explained here: www.greensonscreen.co.uk/argylehistory.asp?era=1899-1900In 1900/01, there was a separate East Devon Senior League - which ties in to the commonly accepted 1900 formation date. The league celebrated its centenary in 2000. That would make Torquay United founder members. To be a little pedantic, the East Devon Senior League actually folded in 1908 and the senior clubs fell under the auspices of the Exeter and District League founded in 1901 which then changed its name to the East Devon League and instituted a senior division for 1908/09. The old East Devon Senior League seems to have been pretty poor at admin, whereas the new East Devon League (formerly the Exeter & District League) was very switched on. They were a lot stricter on clubs and so refused to accept Torquay United and Dawlish who had pulled out mid-season in 1907/08 unless they paid a bond to ensure other clubs would not be out of pocket from another withdrawal. They also implemented a very early "pyramid system" with the new senior division welcoming champions not only from the East junior division but also South and North - leading to Babbacombe and South Molton becoming founder members of the new senior division. Tables from 1908/09 on are therefore fairly easy to find, unlike those from 1900-08. 1904/05 is easily available - probably due to Exeter City's first team being in - but Torquay United did not compete that season. Collin came up with this for 1906/07, but it doesn't tie in to my TUFC records. 112th Battery 10 9 1 0 30 5 19 St Lukes College 10 5 4 1 27 12 14 Exmouth United 10 4 3 3 16 24 11 Torquay United 10 4 0 6 12 21 8 111th Battery 10 2 2 6 15 21 6 Exeter City Res. 10 1 0 9 6 23 2
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2014 11:13:50 GMT
Two military teams in that league from 1906/07. The centenary history has the 111th and 112th Batteries as components of the Royal Field Artillery. There appear to have been a lot of military teams in pre-1914 Devon football. I'm assuming this to have been army sides from Exeter, Plymouth and (possibly) elsewhere; naval sides from in and around Plymouth.
I'm no expert on such matters. The size of the military was considerable in those times which proved to span the aftermath of the Boer War and the onset of the Great War. I'm not sure if Devon housed a disproportionate number of military personnel, which would have skewed the armed forces influence upon local football, or whether it was a national phenomenon whereby most local leagues included military sides. Nor would I know if these teams were made up of full-time military personnel or reservists. The volunteer forces and yeomanry were certainly sizeable in Edwardian days and this was precisely the time when the new Territorial force was being established. Either way, you imagine the military had the organisational wherewithal to establish teams in a variety of leagues and the transport to take them to games. I suspect the military's involvement in Devon football somewhat declined after the Great War but, even in relatively recent times, we've seen Plymouth Command and the Royal Marines compete at a decent level of SW football.
A team too from Exmouth back in 1906. I always think that, for a large Devon town, Exmouth has a relatively low profile. Yet we've seen it has a decent rugby club as well as being a cricket stronghold. We've also discussed Exmouth's halcyon football days of the 1980s. Can these be recaptured following the recent appointment of Kevin Hill as Exmouth Town's joint manager? Hilly has a long association with the club; the Sunday Independent recently showed him pictured in their 1993 side.
Exmouth was much smaller in 1906 but still of some significance. The 1901 census records the town's population as around 10,500. The comparative figure now appears to be in excess of 30,000 with nearly 50,000 living in what the county council describes as the "Exmouth Town Area" (including Budleigh Salterton, Lympstone and Woodbury). Is this another part of Devon where rugby got in the way?
Interesting also from Jon's words that the East Devon League had something of an expansionist zeal in the Edwardian era taking in both Babbacombe and South Molton. I've been taking another look at the current Devon and Exeter League's rule that "clubs must be located within Devon or a 50 mile radius of Exeter". If that's a literal straight line it includes Looe and Bude; Weymouth, Dorchester and Sherborne; Glastonbury and Weston-super-Mare. And, if you're being really picky, Barry in South Wales.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Nov 18, 2014 23:31:31 GMT
Just for Barty, here is a full list of teams playing in the first ten years of East Devon's senior league. This is of course one season of the Devon Senior League - Eastern Section, eight seasons of the East Devon Senior League and the first season of the East Devon League - Senior Division.
1899/00 4 start, 4 finish Dawlish Exeter United Exmouth Newton YMCA 1900/01 6 start, 6 finish 119th Battery RFA 120th Battery RFA Dawlish Exeter United Newton YMCA Torquay United 1901/02 6 start, 6 finish Combined Batteries RFA Dawlish Devon Regiment Exeter United St Luke's College Torquay United 1902/03 6 start, 5 finish Combined Batteries RFA Dawlish Devon Regiment St Luke's College Torquay United Exeter United withdrew during season 1903/04 8 start, 7 finish 110th Battery RFA 111th Battery RFA 112th Battery RFA Dawlish St Luke's College St Sidwells United Torquay United Newton GWR withdrew during season 1904/05 9 start, 8 finish 110th Battery RFA 111th Battery RFA 112th Battery RFA Dawlish Exeter City Friernhay Newton Town St Luke's College Belmont withdrew during season 1905/06 9 start, 8 finish 112th Battery RFA Combined Batteries RFA Dawlish Exeter City Reserves Exmouth United Newton Town St Luke's College Torquay United Friernhay withdrew during season 1906/07 6 start, 6 finish 111th Battery RFA 112th Battery RFA Exeter City Reserves Exmouth United St Luke's College Torquay United 1907/08 7 start, 5 finish 15th Brigade Exeter City Reserves Exmouth United Friernhay St Luke's College Dawlish withdrew during season Torquay United withdrew during season 1908/09 6 start, 6 finish 15th Brigade Babbacombe Exmouth United Friernhay St Luke's College South Molton
No South Devon interest in 1909/10.
Eastern sides in Plymouth football in this period:
Exeter City - Plymouth & District League 1905/06,1906/07 and 1907/08. Exeter City Reserves - Plymouth & District League 1908/09 and 1909/10. Babbacombe - Plymouth & District League 1909/10. Ellacombe - Devon Asociation League - 1908/09 and 1909/10.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 10:02:57 GMT
Just for Barty, here is a full list of teams playing in the first ten years of East Devon's senior league. Thank you, Jon. I'm honoured. Who knows what ripple of interest those league constitutions will cause amongst the wider Torquay United online community. Exeter United and St Sidwell's United. What became of them? Did either ever make much impact? Perhaps they should have got together. Belmont, I assume, would have played at Belmont Pleasure Gardens off Blackboy Road. That's just five minutes walk from the present Exeter City ground. Not sure about Frienhay. There's a street of that name halfway up the hill which climbs to the city from Exe Bridges. A generally overcrowded part of Exeter in the past with no obvious room for a football pitch. I don't think Flowerpot playing fields, not too far away but on the opposite side of the river, came into use until much later. St Luke's College had a long history from 1840 to 1978. The college was to feature again on Torquay United fixture lists as reserve team opponents in the 1960s and 1970s.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Nov 20, 2014 23:39:35 GMT
Exeter United and St Sidwell's United. What became of them? Did either ever make much impact? Perhaps they should have got together. Contrary to urban myth, they didn't get together. Exeter United were defunct over a year before St Sidwell's United changed their name to Exeter City.
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