Post by Dave on Jan 22, 2010 20:35:39 GMT
Another week on the TFF and one that started of very sadly with the news that dear Megan had passed away, I think you all so much for your kind words added on the thread and they will be passed on to Megan’s mum and dad.
There we were doing business as usual on the TFF, when all hell breaks out with the news that Chris Hargreaves was on his way to Oxford. I never worry when such a thread is started on here as I know you are all such a sensible bunch of people who can make your views known in the proper way they should be made.
Makes me even prouder of the TFF and the sort of forum it is and while some may choose to knock us on here, we know what we have created together and just what a great community we are on here together.
If I had one wish it would be that other threads would generate the posts the Hargreaves thread did and I do feel it’s a shame it’s only those types of threads that get so many post on them, when there are threads that really are more about supporting the club etc.
Still that thread had many well thought out and well written posts on it and I thank crispygull for his contributions on the thread, I know he really cares about TUFC and will be at tomorrow’s game as usual giving his support to the team. It was also great to see some others making their first posts on the TFF, let’s hope you get the bug and become a regular poster.
What can I say about this week’s winner? Well I believe he is one of the most popular members on the TFF and is loved by all his fellow members, he is very smart, educated and writes proper English unlike the thick forum owner and the spell checker never asks him to give it a clue when a word has more than five letters in it like it does to me. You just never know what treasure he will bring us next and all I can say is long live this member, your forum needs you.
This week’s winner is Barton Downs weel done Nick well deserved again
One of Barton Downs he made this week
I was at Cardiff v Blackpool recently and – walking back to the city afterwards – a supporter in his fifties caught me up and told me in no uncertain terms that it was a “******* disgrace! Jones must go now”. He didn’t appear to be the violent type and - from first impressions anyway - not all eleven players were on the pitch with regard to his mental wellbeing. Then, after drawing no response from me, he toddled off and tried someone else.
As it happens, I’ve no opinion on Dave Jones’ tenure at Cardiff other than to think the club is doing pretty well compared to all those years they spent playing the likes of…well…Torquay United. But it did remind me of countless occasions when fellow Torquay supporters have insisted I agree with them on matters such as “the manager is a ******* clown, he’s got to go!” and “that’s the worst ******* referee I’ve ever seen. ******* cheat!” Sometimes they may have a point but often not. What may reasonably be seen as an opinion to be held once in a Blue Moon is – to them – the default response to every adverse event.
So what do you do? (a) tell them they’re being unreasonable (b) meekly agree with them (c) attempt to blank them. Tricky one – everyone is entitled to their point of view; depends who it is; anything to keep the peace, etc. But, like Chris at Chesterfield, I do wonder what is going on at times and if I’m the odd one out. Occasionally it feels like you’re not a true fan unless you’re angry with rage, foaming at the mouth and absolutely 100% convinced that the world – cheating opponents, referees, stewards, catering staff, adolescent pom pom girls, the media and the Gods of Football – are lined up against your team. To be anything else, tastes of limp-wristed submission and – you know! – not really being a true fan.
There are times when I fear my reluctance to share the anger of others for ninety minutes will eventually put me off football. Mind you, I’ve been saying that for a dozen years now and – fortunately – there’s plenty of things and people to keep my interest alive (including the Torquay Funny Farm). And perhaps, in my own case, watching equal amounts of football as a neutral and as a committed fan helps enormously. Nonetheless, next time you ask me about Bournemouth (away), I’ll still tell you I enjoyed the game (and the day) and thought we played well. I may express my reservations about the referee’s performance but please don’t necessarily expect me to call him a “****” in the way you clearly want me to do.
Ah well, each to his own as ever. As for any “terrible decline in terrace standards” my view is mixed. I certainly believe that “obscene chanting” (which has had its enjoyable moments over the years I’ll confess) is nothing like it was thirty or forty years ago. That’s not a comment about a certain part of the Popular Side (as their efforts don’t carry along the back step too well) but a view of the English game in general. Otherwise, more generally, swearing at football has existed since the Year Dot and – as it becomes more widespread in society – it would be a surprise it became less prevalent in football. I’m in my mid fifties but – whenever there is an irritation on a train, in a shop or wherever – I’m afraid the words “for ****’s sake” appear on my lips far more quickly than twenty or thirty years ago. Perhaps that’s because “****” has become the new “bloody”?
The thing that has changed - even though it was never entirely absent - is the stuff about expecting results, being an instant expert (football, grit supplies, the weather forecast, etc) and being ready to dish out criticism at the earliest opportunity (I still treasure the “Sills is ******* ****” text I received at half-time of the Grays match). Again that’s society, the media and everything else. The move towards “transparency” and “accountability” - and, likewise, greater self-expression - is naturally for the good but there are side-effects (as we see when what was once regarded as “dirty washing” - not to be aired in public - is now encouraged to be part of a wider domain). And, in football of course, there is more analysis and scrutiny than ever to the extent we are all pundits now. That - in theory - is commendable as it leads to greater discussion and deeper understanding. But - in practice - the opposite occasionally seems to be the case. And besides, it’s bleedin’ football - isn’t it? - not a chess match run through a computer. Above all, remember what the man from N7 says about playing conditions, the human condition and the presence of an opponent set to do you down (the one true counter-force which is usually overlooked).
Lastly, my own theories about “terrace standards” partly relate to the end of mass hooliganism and the way we have to accept that things have improved. Central to this was the introduction of stewarding to replace policing. This, I’d contend, has largely being a triumph and – contrary to the widespread impression of stewards as “ogres” – I’d argue the approach has generally been “softly, softly”. For the main we are allowed to behave in a way which acknowledges we’re at a football match rather than the Royal Opera House (although the embourgeoisement of the game at the higher levels may often give the opposite impression). This should be regarded as a privilege – not a given right – and I guess there are times when it’s surprising what is allowed to be said. Aside from the racist (and homophobic) stuff - which is rightly illegal - I’ve always suspected the stewarding deal has been that we’re pretty much allowed to shout what we like provided we’re not fighting as in the past. I imagine this latitude – welcome or not – may have, in turn, encouraged the “I pay my money and can say whatever I ******* like” mentality. Well…
There we were doing business as usual on the TFF, when all hell breaks out with the news that Chris Hargreaves was on his way to Oxford. I never worry when such a thread is started on here as I know you are all such a sensible bunch of people who can make your views known in the proper way they should be made.
Makes me even prouder of the TFF and the sort of forum it is and while some may choose to knock us on here, we know what we have created together and just what a great community we are on here together.
If I had one wish it would be that other threads would generate the posts the Hargreaves thread did and I do feel it’s a shame it’s only those types of threads that get so many post on them, when there are threads that really are more about supporting the club etc.
Still that thread had many well thought out and well written posts on it and I thank crispygull for his contributions on the thread, I know he really cares about TUFC and will be at tomorrow’s game as usual giving his support to the team. It was also great to see some others making their first posts on the TFF, let’s hope you get the bug and become a regular poster.
What can I say about this week’s winner? Well I believe he is one of the most popular members on the TFF and is loved by all his fellow members, he is very smart, educated and writes proper English unlike the thick forum owner and the spell checker never asks him to give it a clue when a word has more than five letters in it like it does to me. You just never know what treasure he will bring us next and all I can say is long live this member, your forum needs you.
This week’s winner is Barton Downs weel done Nick well deserved again
One of Barton Downs he made this week
I was at Cardiff v Blackpool recently and – walking back to the city afterwards – a supporter in his fifties caught me up and told me in no uncertain terms that it was a “******* disgrace! Jones must go now”. He didn’t appear to be the violent type and - from first impressions anyway - not all eleven players were on the pitch with regard to his mental wellbeing. Then, after drawing no response from me, he toddled off and tried someone else.
As it happens, I’ve no opinion on Dave Jones’ tenure at Cardiff other than to think the club is doing pretty well compared to all those years they spent playing the likes of…well…Torquay United. But it did remind me of countless occasions when fellow Torquay supporters have insisted I agree with them on matters such as “the manager is a ******* clown, he’s got to go!” and “that’s the worst ******* referee I’ve ever seen. ******* cheat!” Sometimes they may have a point but often not. What may reasonably be seen as an opinion to be held once in a Blue Moon is – to them – the default response to every adverse event.
So what do you do? (a) tell them they’re being unreasonable (b) meekly agree with them (c) attempt to blank them. Tricky one – everyone is entitled to their point of view; depends who it is; anything to keep the peace, etc. But, like Chris at Chesterfield, I do wonder what is going on at times and if I’m the odd one out. Occasionally it feels like you’re not a true fan unless you’re angry with rage, foaming at the mouth and absolutely 100% convinced that the world – cheating opponents, referees, stewards, catering staff, adolescent pom pom girls, the media and the Gods of Football – are lined up against your team. To be anything else, tastes of limp-wristed submission and – you know! – not really being a true fan.
There are times when I fear my reluctance to share the anger of others for ninety minutes will eventually put me off football. Mind you, I’ve been saying that for a dozen years now and – fortunately – there’s plenty of things and people to keep my interest alive (including the Torquay Funny Farm). And perhaps, in my own case, watching equal amounts of football as a neutral and as a committed fan helps enormously. Nonetheless, next time you ask me about Bournemouth (away), I’ll still tell you I enjoyed the game (and the day) and thought we played well. I may express my reservations about the referee’s performance but please don’t necessarily expect me to call him a “****” in the way you clearly want me to do.
Ah well, each to his own as ever. As for any “terrible decline in terrace standards” my view is mixed. I certainly believe that “obscene chanting” (which has had its enjoyable moments over the years I’ll confess) is nothing like it was thirty or forty years ago. That’s not a comment about a certain part of the Popular Side (as their efforts don’t carry along the back step too well) but a view of the English game in general. Otherwise, more generally, swearing at football has existed since the Year Dot and – as it becomes more widespread in society – it would be a surprise it became less prevalent in football. I’m in my mid fifties but – whenever there is an irritation on a train, in a shop or wherever – I’m afraid the words “for ****’s sake” appear on my lips far more quickly than twenty or thirty years ago. Perhaps that’s because “****” has become the new “bloody”?
The thing that has changed - even though it was never entirely absent - is the stuff about expecting results, being an instant expert (football, grit supplies, the weather forecast, etc) and being ready to dish out criticism at the earliest opportunity (I still treasure the “Sills is ******* ****” text I received at half-time of the Grays match). Again that’s society, the media and everything else. The move towards “transparency” and “accountability” - and, likewise, greater self-expression - is naturally for the good but there are side-effects (as we see when what was once regarded as “dirty washing” - not to be aired in public - is now encouraged to be part of a wider domain). And, in football of course, there is more analysis and scrutiny than ever to the extent we are all pundits now. That - in theory - is commendable as it leads to greater discussion and deeper understanding. But - in practice - the opposite occasionally seems to be the case. And besides, it’s bleedin’ football - isn’t it? - not a chess match run through a computer. Above all, remember what the man from N7 says about playing conditions, the human condition and the presence of an opponent set to do you down (the one true counter-force which is usually overlooked).
Lastly, my own theories about “terrace standards” partly relate to the end of mass hooliganism and the way we have to accept that things have improved. Central to this was the introduction of stewarding to replace policing. This, I’d contend, has largely being a triumph and – contrary to the widespread impression of stewards as “ogres” – I’d argue the approach has generally been “softly, softly”. For the main we are allowed to behave in a way which acknowledges we’re at a football match rather than the Royal Opera House (although the embourgeoisement of the game at the higher levels may often give the opposite impression). This should be regarded as a privilege – not a given right – and I guess there are times when it’s surprising what is allowed to be said. Aside from the racist (and homophobic) stuff - which is rightly illegal - I’ve always suspected the stewarding deal has been that we’re pretty much allowed to shout what we like provided we’re not fighting as in the past. I imagine this latitude – welcome or not – may have, in turn, encouraged the “I pay my money and can say whatever I ******* like” mentality. Well…