Post by Dave on Jul 9, 2010 20:04:53 GMT
I suppose some people would describe what happened to me in a street today as rather odd or not something that has ever happened to them or what they would want to happen to them. Whenever someone loses their life you often hear people say the person was so unlucky and just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Based on that I really don’t want to know when I’m going to die just where, then I’ll make sure I never go to that place. But there are times when we might just be in the right place at the right time and even winning say the 50/50 draw could have came about because you just happened to buy your ticket at the right time in the right part of the ground.
Being somewhere at the right place and at the right time may not just be about you or what luck it might bring, it can also be about being there just when someone needed to talk with someone, or needed a hug to pick them up and send them on their way.
The time was around 10.30am this morning when I parked my van partly on the path on double yellow lines outside Dolphin Tools in Bear Street Barnstaple, it’s a very old street and not that wide and thankfully the wardens in Barnstaple are a reasonable bunch who understand other people have work to do as well as them.
Going into the shop itself has been a bit sad lately ever since I learned that Duke had died, Duke was not a person but an African Grey Parrot and he came to live in the shop around two years ago. One family member of the shop owner had owned Duke for a number of years and after a few bites from Duke when she first bought him, he soon became no more than a prisoner in his cage and ended up being left all the time in a room on his own and just fed the rubbish diet most pet shops tell those who buy a parrot is all that is needed to keep the bird alive and healthy.
Due to pure boredom Duke was soon pulling his feathers out and for a number of years looked in a very sorry state indeed. In the end she asked the owner of the tool shop if he would look after Duke and it was decided the shop was the best place for him as I don’t think he really wanted to have Duke living in his home.
Now in the shop and getting plenty of attention Duke started to looks much better and he was not pulling so many feathers out and I had great hopes he would in time look like he really should look like and not the half bald bird he was. I suggested to the owner the best diet he should be giving Duke and in time if the owner had stuck to the plan to get Duke to eat what he was given and not just let him pick what he wanted, Duke would have been eating what really was far better for him that what he had been eating for years, but he gave up far to easily.
Two months ago I was told the real owner was moving back up country and was taking Duke as well and I knew what would happen and it did, she only had him back for three weeks before she phoned the shop owner to say Duke had died. My own double yellow crowned Amazon parrot Cleo is a good talker, but Duke was really special and one of the best talking parrots I have ever heard.
Where was I? back to the story, I came out of the shop carrying an Hitachi nail gun in a case and as I got to the side door of the van I stopped before opening it to let a lady walk past who I guess must have been 70+ years old. She insisted I did what I needed to do and just stood there politely waiting. Nail gun in van and sliding side door shut I gestured her to now walk past and thanked her when she was beside me. She thanked me back and while still walking slowly away said how important and nice it was for people to be polite and courteous to each other.
It was at this point she stopped walking and I watched as her eyes filled up with tears that started rolling down her face. I asked her what was the cause of her upset and soon she was telling me how she lived alone in what I gather must be one of those retirement type flat buildings and how one retired old man was making her life and others living there a real misery He sure sounded a very arrogant and rude man who made sure it was always about what he wanted and got and sod everyone else, it seems he even had taken control of the security entrance gate.
We talked for a further 15 minutes and I learned there was someone who she could report this man too, only she had been too afraid to do so up until now. I told her she needed to report this man and get an end put to his selfish ways as she deserved to be able to live her life in peace in her own home.
I gave her a big long hug and told her to dry her tears and she did and a smile started creeping over her face. She then said “I thank you from the bottom of my heart and when I get back home I’m going to report him and I won’t be afraid to do so”. She wandered off down the street and it was clear from the way she was walking she was feeling a whole lot better than she had been half an hour before.
I got into my van and set off heading for South Molton and starting thinking about how some people really are selfish or do things to others without a thought or care in the world what impact it will have on them, or how much hurt and upset they will cause.
Yesterday while talking with Lou on the phone I knew the tears were running down her face and the heartache she is suffering was so clear to hear in her voice. My thoughts today are that while I know Lou for now is going to have a big empty gap in her life, she will in the end be far better off not having the people in her life that caused her great upset. I did say to her that I believe she should check out if there is a local brownie group nearby as I feel she would be perfect to be involved with the running of such a group.
At the end of the day the TUST board for what ever reasons decided they no longer wanted Lou running the junior gulls, hard, unfair, unjust, you can use what ever words you want to describe it, but what has angered me the most is the way they went about and the thoughtlessness and heartlessness they showed and that is what I can’t forgive.
I know Jamie and think he is an OK guy and good family man. I do wonder knowing all the hard work he has put into the TUST, how he would feel if he was hounded out and treated like Lou has been. I would bet he would be very angry that after all he gave he ended up being treated in such a poor way.
There will always be times in life when someone has to be moved on, times when someone has to be let go, times when it seems the only way forward, its life and such events can cause pain and upset and that is why it needs to be done in the very best way possible to ensure the pain caused is as less as possible. The way I see things there seems there was a degree of spite and vindictiveness and maybe that’s because Lou was backed up and supported so much by Colin Lee, as I said before I believe Lou would not have been sacked when she was if Colin Lee was still at the club.
This is now all over as far as Lou ever getting her beloved junior gulls back, but what will never be over is my contempt for her persecutors at least until they ever put their hands up and admit they should have handled all of this so much better than they did.
It takes a big man to admit when they are wrong, there is no shame in being wrong and to be honest and put your hand on your heart and say your sorry and I did this all wrong, is the way you earn back the respect you lost, I won’t hold my breath.
Dave
So onto this weeks winner and I’m sure glad in what has been a disappointingly quite week on the TFF, he has played a big part in writing some excellent posts that showed the great knowledge he processes He also happens to be a really top bloke who not only is very likable, but very friendly as well.
This week’s winner is Chris Hayes, well done Chris and thanks for all your great support on the TFF
A few posts made this week by Chris
One
the German Bundesliga is just as rigorous as the Premier League, the German players play just as many games in a season and there are also lots of foreign players playing in the Bundesliga. So just why do they do so much better than us every time?
The Germans take their sport very seriously and football, right down to Sunday League level is extremely well organized. Even small village teams of South Devon League Division 7 level have a trainer who gets paid 400 - 500 Euros a month. Training at least twice a week. Promising youngster are noted early and their skills developed. The standard of sport facilities is also very high. When I think of the Council football pitches in Torquay I can only shake my head. They would put cows out to grass on them over here. So my opinion is that the Germans have put more effort into it at grass roots level, the basis is therefore stronger and they reep the rewards.
The big difference is that young German players get experience younger. Marko Marin who's now 21 and in the World Cup squad has already had 3 seasons under his belt at Borussia Moenchengladbach and Borussia Moenchengladbach II in three different divisions before he was transferred to Werder Bremen where he's played in over 30 games this season. He might get Thomas Mueller's starting place for the semi final. He's two footed, quick and skillful.
I think that the reserve teams playing in competitive leagues help the development of German players a lot. Thomas Mueller now 20 years old has been at Bayern Munich since he was 10! German academies seem to work.
At the moment, who in the UK is actually producing young English players good enough to warrant a starting place in a Premier League? I hope that the likes of Danny Welbeck, Ryan Shawcross, Adam Johnson (ssshhh he's got a left foot!) Kieron Gibbs, Jack Wilshire, Joe Hart, Jack Rodwell and Dan Gosling develop as we hope they do. I also hope that Fabio opts for youth now and dumps the likes of Terry, Gerrard, Lampard, Defoe, Heskey, Carragher (tell me again why he was in the World Cup 23, I'm still confused), Upson (dear god). I think players like Milner, Dawson, Huddlestone and Ashley Young should be included. I have my doubts about Ashley Young. At 24 years of age with his ability he should have more than 7 caps and he's one of the ones who's had first team experience from the start.
The problem is the Premiership as far as I'm concerned. The rewards are so huge and the amount of money circulating is so unbelievable that there's hardly any motivation to have the time and the patience to develop young English kids. I'm hoping that Steve McClaren might try to attract some younger English players to Wolfsburg in the future. Not many British let alone English players have played top flight football in Germany. The only ones that spring to mind are Kevin Keegan at HSV, Tony Woodcock at Cologne, Paul Lambert at Borussia Dortmund, Mark Hughes and Alan McNally at Bayern Munich. We've had no English players in the French League since Hoddle, Hately and Waddle. None in Serie A since Jay Bothroyd's two year spell at Perugia and Lee Sharpe's 3 game loan spell at Sampdoria when David Platt was in charge. All we have abroad now are Matt Derbyshire who plays for Olympiacos Piraeus in Greece and Darius Vassell played last season for Ankaragücü in Turkey and hopes to stay in Turkey providing he finds a new club. Jermaine Pennant is the only English player in La Liga at Real Zaragoza. There's a story of a wasted talent either through a lack of proper development or more importantly in Pennant's case a lack of discipline and professionalism. Or maybe it's a case that our young players are so pampered in England on big contracts in the reserves that they've little motivation to move abroad and challenge themselves. Maybe Roy Keane is right and it's because that most of them are too lazy to take football seriously enough as they're happy with the Cadillac Escalade and a never ending conveyor belt of tarts they can spit roast with the help of a team mate or two. Or maybe it's because they aren't good enough in the first place.
I think that Merse posted a comment a while back saying that Capello had less English players who played top flight football to choose from than any other previous England manager. I think the percentage of English players in the premier league was in the low 30s from memory. Obviously this needs to be higher. You actually wonder just how many of the 30-odd% are actually of international calibre? A lot less than 30% thats for sure.
It think it's a wise move to keep Capello for the last two years of this contract. If he can install some sense into the younger generation and help develop a new generation then he's worth the money the FA pay him. I still think he's doing a better job than Sven and unlike dear Svennis he's hasn't had the luxury of having certain players fit and available and young enough to run around for 90 minutes. I'll concede that Sven had a good Euro 2004 tournament but that squad is a lot better than the one Capello had, Ian Walker excepted!
EDIT: I completely forgot about Owen Hargreaves being English and playing in Germany. But he moved from Calgary to Munich when he was 16 and then was developed by Bayern Munich. He was also the second footballer in history to play for England without having played in an English League. Who can name the other?
Two
There's actually 3 national divisions now. You have the Bundesliga and the 2. Bundesliga. In 2008 the 3.Liga was founded. There are 3 regional divisions (Regionalliga) that feed into it. The Champion of each Regionalliga then gets promoted the 3. Liga. Underneath that there are then 12 Regional Oberliga divisions feeding into the Regionalliga.
As for Karl-Marx Stadt. It's not Dynamo Dresden reserves fault that they've sunk so low. They should've never released Carl Priso.
I stand corrected...............my expanding family and diminishing disposable income has done for my trips to Germany in recent years.
What is your opinion of the inlusion of reserve teams so high up the German pyramid Chris? I know it's accepted in plenty of countries, but it is the most un British aspect of continental football I can think of.
I think the point Frankfurtgull made about the vary basic facilities a German community would provide for it's football club say a lot for the German, and indeed Belgian, French and Dutch way of doing things; actually every other European country I've visited compared to England for that matter; and that I think is the crux of the very different way our football is going in direct contrast to other countries which ALL appear to be upwardly mobile and progessing whilst we regress. But then, in other countries you don't get playing fields being sold off by politicians, nor urban transit systems severely underfunded and all but vandalised by politicians ~ particularly Conservative politicians ~ it's all a question of recognising the value of the quality of life as against having the mentality that everything needs to be profitable and exploitable.
I remember thirty years ago refereeing a game in a small German town called Bad Pyrmont as a guest referee in a regional league and arriving at the stadium to find under soil pop up sprinklers doing their stuff before the evening kick off and recall thinking at the time that this town was roughly of the same population as Newton Abbot and comparing these facilities with the cheap jack Rec in NA.
Funny place BP, rather like a German version of Buxton ~ full of old folk taking the waters of a spa town high in the wooded hills and surrounded by baroque architecture. They have a weird local bye law in Bad Pyrmont that forbids the use of any motor vehicle in the town centre after 10pm and I was told that many a law abiding German has pushed his Merc to the edge of the designated "Verbattenzone"
What a contrast to Chemnitz (formerly Karl Marx Stadt) and yes TB1
and I both surmised how Karl Priso's heart must have dropped, if not his jaw; when he arrived in that run down, miserable dump having signed for the local club. I bet he was soon on the phone to his agent when he surveyed the desolated old place. Fancy committing yourself to a couple of years there, and I bet they are one of those clubs who made sure any prospective new signings were taken to a neighbouring town or city to do the negotiations...................not a problem that Torquay United ever face apart from maybe that interminable crawl along the main road from the Penn Inn Roundabout to Plainmoor!
Well, as Frankfurt Gull said, the Germans take their football very seriously indeed and it's reflected on how their clubs are set up. Most of the big clubs are also Sport's Clubs offering many different sports not just football. St Pauli actually run a Rugby team as well believe it or not.
I paid a visit a couple of years ago to the lovely Wildparkstadion in Karlsruhe and I was struck by how organised the coaching set up was. There were kids from many different age ranges having very specific training in small groups being supervised by a couple of coaches. The guy who I spoke to said that the club really needed to develop young players in order to keep them financially sound. I think this sums up German football in general. For the most part clubs seem to have more of a realistic view that they need to aspire to a level of football which is more sustainable. There's none of this investing millions on a complete Pipedream. All the money spent at Portsmouth and they're still at Fratton Park and facing a huge mountain of debt to pay back. I can't imagine this kind of thing going on in Germany. It says a lot for football that this year's Champions League Final between Internazionale and FC Bayern was overshadowed (in this country) by the £90 million play off final between Blackpool and Cardiff. If clubs like Blackpool, West Brom and Burnley are sensible they should take the £60 million in the Premier League and the £30 million in parachute payments and just yo-yo up and down until they find themselves in a strong financial position, which shouldn't on the face of it take too long!
As for introducing Premier League reserve teams into the league. Well I think it might bring some benefits in the development of young players. Instead of keeping young players in non competitive games they would be thrown into matches in competitve leagues. It can't be bad for them can it? As long as the club's can't go any higher than League 1. If there needs to be a bridge between League 1 and the Premiership then players can be loaned to Championship sides.
I think the biggest potential impact of including say 10 reserve sides of the biggest 10 Premiership clubs would be that it might impact the current loan system because potentially the likes of say "Tottenham Hotspur A" joining our league might not facilitate loanees like Adam Smith or Jamie Cox and the trio that Yeovil had last season. But this could be negated by Championship clubs looking to loan their players out as per normal. Another is the possible low away followings that you might get initially. But you might also find that these sides might find themselves getting support from fans getting increasingly disillusioned with Premiership football but wishing to continue a link of sorts with the club. I think it would need a radical shake up within the game and a change in our mentality both in how we deal with the tradition and how realistic we need our clubs to be. What's more important? Building solid setups which produce results or just doing the typical British thing of chucking vast sums of money without actually addressing the issue? At moment I can't see how lower league football can be sustainable for some clubs who like Accrington "survive" on an average of 1400 home gates.
But would the inclusion of playing Man Utd A, Liverpool A, Chelsea A, Aston Villa A, Man City A, Everton A, Arsenal A, Newcastle A, Tottenham A and West Ham A de-value lower league football? At the moment this model doesn't appear to be harming Germany and Spain's development of younger players. I don't believe the Italians have the same set up as Germany and Spain.
If you take Barcelona B for example, not only have they developed the likes of Lionel Messi, Xavi, Andres Iniesta, Victor Valdes and Carles Puyol but they've also had the added bonus of blooding new coaches. Current Barca manager Josep Guardiola spent two seasons as head coach of Barcelona B, as did a certain Juande Ramos back in 1996-1997. Luis Enrique is their current coach. What's the betting that he'll be Josep Guardiola's succesor? Real Madrid run a similar setup and their team has helped produce the likes of Raul, Guti, Ilker Casillas, Rafael Martin Vasquez, Michel, Emilio "The Vulture" Butragueno and a certain Mr Rafael Benitez before he formed The Mavericks and started reading out rants towards Fergie written down on Tesco Extra receipts.
Being somewhere at the right place and at the right time may not just be about you or what luck it might bring, it can also be about being there just when someone needed to talk with someone, or needed a hug to pick them up and send them on their way.
The time was around 10.30am this morning when I parked my van partly on the path on double yellow lines outside Dolphin Tools in Bear Street Barnstaple, it’s a very old street and not that wide and thankfully the wardens in Barnstaple are a reasonable bunch who understand other people have work to do as well as them.
Going into the shop itself has been a bit sad lately ever since I learned that Duke had died, Duke was not a person but an African Grey Parrot and he came to live in the shop around two years ago. One family member of the shop owner had owned Duke for a number of years and after a few bites from Duke when she first bought him, he soon became no more than a prisoner in his cage and ended up being left all the time in a room on his own and just fed the rubbish diet most pet shops tell those who buy a parrot is all that is needed to keep the bird alive and healthy.
Due to pure boredom Duke was soon pulling his feathers out and for a number of years looked in a very sorry state indeed. In the end she asked the owner of the tool shop if he would look after Duke and it was decided the shop was the best place for him as I don’t think he really wanted to have Duke living in his home.
Now in the shop and getting plenty of attention Duke started to looks much better and he was not pulling so many feathers out and I had great hopes he would in time look like he really should look like and not the half bald bird he was. I suggested to the owner the best diet he should be giving Duke and in time if the owner had stuck to the plan to get Duke to eat what he was given and not just let him pick what he wanted, Duke would have been eating what really was far better for him that what he had been eating for years, but he gave up far to easily.
Two months ago I was told the real owner was moving back up country and was taking Duke as well and I knew what would happen and it did, she only had him back for three weeks before she phoned the shop owner to say Duke had died. My own double yellow crowned Amazon parrot Cleo is a good talker, but Duke was really special and one of the best talking parrots I have ever heard.
Where was I? back to the story, I came out of the shop carrying an Hitachi nail gun in a case and as I got to the side door of the van I stopped before opening it to let a lady walk past who I guess must have been 70+ years old. She insisted I did what I needed to do and just stood there politely waiting. Nail gun in van and sliding side door shut I gestured her to now walk past and thanked her when she was beside me. She thanked me back and while still walking slowly away said how important and nice it was for people to be polite and courteous to each other.
It was at this point she stopped walking and I watched as her eyes filled up with tears that started rolling down her face. I asked her what was the cause of her upset and soon she was telling me how she lived alone in what I gather must be one of those retirement type flat buildings and how one retired old man was making her life and others living there a real misery He sure sounded a very arrogant and rude man who made sure it was always about what he wanted and got and sod everyone else, it seems he even had taken control of the security entrance gate.
We talked for a further 15 minutes and I learned there was someone who she could report this man too, only she had been too afraid to do so up until now. I told her she needed to report this man and get an end put to his selfish ways as she deserved to be able to live her life in peace in her own home.
I gave her a big long hug and told her to dry her tears and she did and a smile started creeping over her face. She then said “I thank you from the bottom of my heart and when I get back home I’m going to report him and I won’t be afraid to do so”. She wandered off down the street and it was clear from the way she was walking she was feeling a whole lot better than she had been half an hour before.
I got into my van and set off heading for South Molton and starting thinking about how some people really are selfish or do things to others without a thought or care in the world what impact it will have on them, or how much hurt and upset they will cause.
Yesterday while talking with Lou on the phone I knew the tears were running down her face and the heartache she is suffering was so clear to hear in her voice. My thoughts today are that while I know Lou for now is going to have a big empty gap in her life, she will in the end be far better off not having the people in her life that caused her great upset. I did say to her that I believe she should check out if there is a local brownie group nearby as I feel she would be perfect to be involved with the running of such a group.
At the end of the day the TUST board for what ever reasons decided they no longer wanted Lou running the junior gulls, hard, unfair, unjust, you can use what ever words you want to describe it, but what has angered me the most is the way they went about and the thoughtlessness and heartlessness they showed and that is what I can’t forgive.
I know Jamie and think he is an OK guy and good family man. I do wonder knowing all the hard work he has put into the TUST, how he would feel if he was hounded out and treated like Lou has been. I would bet he would be very angry that after all he gave he ended up being treated in such a poor way.
There will always be times in life when someone has to be moved on, times when someone has to be let go, times when it seems the only way forward, its life and such events can cause pain and upset and that is why it needs to be done in the very best way possible to ensure the pain caused is as less as possible. The way I see things there seems there was a degree of spite and vindictiveness and maybe that’s because Lou was backed up and supported so much by Colin Lee, as I said before I believe Lou would not have been sacked when she was if Colin Lee was still at the club.
This is now all over as far as Lou ever getting her beloved junior gulls back, but what will never be over is my contempt for her persecutors at least until they ever put their hands up and admit they should have handled all of this so much better than they did.
It takes a big man to admit when they are wrong, there is no shame in being wrong and to be honest and put your hand on your heart and say your sorry and I did this all wrong, is the way you earn back the respect you lost, I won’t hold my breath.
Dave
So onto this weeks winner and I’m sure glad in what has been a disappointingly quite week on the TFF, he has played a big part in writing some excellent posts that showed the great knowledge he processes He also happens to be a really top bloke who not only is very likable, but very friendly as well.
This week’s winner is Chris Hayes, well done Chris and thanks for all your great support on the TFF
A few posts made this week by Chris
One
The Germans take their sport very seriously and football, right down to Sunday League level is extremely well organized. Even small village teams of South Devon League Division 7 level have a trainer who gets paid 400 - 500 Euros a month. Training at least twice a week. Promising youngster are noted early and their skills developed. The standard of sport facilities is also very high. When I think of the Council football pitches in Torquay I can only shake my head. They would put cows out to grass on them over here. So my opinion is that the Germans have put more effort into it at grass roots level, the basis is therefore stronger and they reep the rewards.
The big difference is that young German players get experience younger. Marko Marin who's now 21 and in the World Cup squad has already had 3 seasons under his belt at Borussia Moenchengladbach and Borussia Moenchengladbach II in three different divisions before he was transferred to Werder Bremen where he's played in over 30 games this season. He might get Thomas Mueller's starting place for the semi final. He's two footed, quick and skillful.
I think that the reserve teams playing in competitive leagues help the development of German players a lot. Thomas Mueller now 20 years old has been at Bayern Munich since he was 10! German academies seem to work.
At the moment, who in the UK is actually producing young English players good enough to warrant a starting place in a Premier League? I hope that the likes of Danny Welbeck, Ryan Shawcross, Adam Johnson (ssshhh he's got a left foot!) Kieron Gibbs, Jack Wilshire, Joe Hart, Jack Rodwell and Dan Gosling develop as we hope they do. I also hope that Fabio opts for youth now and dumps the likes of Terry, Gerrard, Lampard, Defoe, Heskey, Carragher (tell me again why he was in the World Cup 23, I'm still confused), Upson (dear god). I think players like Milner, Dawson, Huddlestone and Ashley Young should be included. I have my doubts about Ashley Young. At 24 years of age with his ability he should have more than 7 caps and he's one of the ones who's had first team experience from the start.
The problem is the Premiership as far as I'm concerned. The rewards are so huge and the amount of money circulating is so unbelievable that there's hardly any motivation to have the time and the patience to develop young English kids. I'm hoping that Steve McClaren might try to attract some younger English players to Wolfsburg in the future. Not many British let alone English players have played top flight football in Germany. The only ones that spring to mind are Kevin Keegan at HSV, Tony Woodcock at Cologne, Paul Lambert at Borussia Dortmund, Mark Hughes and Alan McNally at Bayern Munich. We've had no English players in the French League since Hoddle, Hately and Waddle. None in Serie A since Jay Bothroyd's two year spell at Perugia and Lee Sharpe's 3 game loan spell at Sampdoria when David Platt was in charge. All we have abroad now are Matt Derbyshire who plays for Olympiacos Piraeus in Greece and Darius Vassell played last season for Ankaragücü in Turkey and hopes to stay in Turkey providing he finds a new club. Jermaine Pennant is the only English player in La Liga at Real Zaragoza. There's a story of a wasted talent either through a lack of proper development or more importantly in Pennant's case a lack of discipline and professionalism. Or maybe it's a case that our young players are so pampered in England on big contracts in the reserves that they've little motivation to move abroad and challenge themselves. Maybe Roy Keane is right and it's because that most of them are too lazy to take football seriously enough as they're happy with the Cadillac Escalade and a never ending conveyor belt of tarts they can spit roast with the help of a team mate or two. Or maybe it's because they aren't good enough in the first place.
I think that Merse posted a comment a while back saying that Capello had less English players who played top flight football to choose from than any other previous England manager. I think the percentage of English players in the premier league was in the low 30s from memory. Obviously this needs to be higher. You actually wonder just how many of the 30-odd% are actually of international calibre? A lot less than 30% thats for sure.
It think it's a wise move to keep Capello for the last two years of this contract. If he can install some sense into the younger generation and help develop a new generation then he's worth the money the FA pay him. I still think he's doing a better job than Sven and unlike dear Svennis he's hasn't had the luxury of having certain players fit and available and young enough to run around for 90 minutes. I'll concede that Sven had a good Euro 2004 tournament but that squad is a lot better than the one Capello had, Ian Walker excepted!
EDIT: I completely forgot about Owen Hargreaves being English and playing in Germany. But he moved from Calgary to Munich when he was 16 and then was developed by Bayern Munich. He was also the second footballer in history to play for England without having played in an English League. Who can name the other?
Two
Jul 4, 2010 19:25:42 GMT @chrish said:
There's actually 3 national divisions now. You have the Bundesliga and the 2. Bundesliga. In 2008 the 3.Liga was founded. There are 3 regional divisions (Regionalliga) that feed into it. The Champion of each Regionalliga then gets promoted the 3. Liga. Underneath that there are then 12 Regional Oberliga divisions feeding into the Regionalliga.
As for Karl-Marx Stadt. It's not Dynamo Dresden reserves fault that they've sunk so low. They should've never released Carl Priso.
I stand corrected...............my expanding family and diminishing disposable income has done for my trips to Germany in recent years.What is your opinion of the inlusion of reserve teams so high up the German pyramid Chris? I know it's accepted in plenty of countries, but it is the most un British aspect of continental football I can think of.
I think the point Frankfurtgull made about the vary basic facilities a German community would provide for it's football club say a lot for the German, and indeed Belgian, French and Dutch way of doing things; actually every other European country I've visited compared to England for that matter; and that I think is the crux of the very different way our football is going in direct contrast to other countries which ALL appear to be upwardly mobile and progessing whilst we regress. But then, in other countries you don't get playing fields being sold off by politicians, nor urban transit systems severely underfunded and all but vandalised by politicians ~ particularly Conservative politicians ~ it's all a question of recognising the value of the quality of life as against having the mentality that everything needs to be profitable and exploitable.
I remember thirty years ago refereeing a game in a small German town called Bad Pyrmont as a guest referee in a regional league and arriving at the stadium to find under soil pop up sprinklers doing their stuff before the evening kick off and recall thinking at the time that this town was roughly of the same population as Newton Abbot and comparing these facilities with the cheap jack Rec in NA.
Funny place BP, rather like a German version of Buxton ~ full of old folk taking the waters of a spa town high in the wooded hills and surrounded by baroque architecture. They have a weird local bye law in Bad Pyrmont that forbids the use of any motor vehicle in the town centre after 10pm and I was told that many a law abiding German has pushed his Merc to the edge of the designated "Verbattenzone"
What a contrast to Chemnitz (formerly Karl Marx Stadt) and yes TB1
and I both surmised how Karl Priso's heart must have dropped, if not his jaw; when he arrived in that run down, miserable dump having signed for the local club. I bet he was soon on the phone to his agent when he surveyed the desolated old place. Fancy committing yourself to a couple of years there, and I bet they are one of those clubs who made sure any prospective new signings were taken to a neighbouring town or city to do the negotiations...................not a problem that Torquay United ever face apart from maybe that interminable crawl along the main road from the Penn Inn Roundabout to Plainmoor!Well, as Frankfurt Gull said, the Germans take their football very seriously indeed and it's reflected on how their clubs are set up. Most of the big clubs are also Sport's Clubs offering many different sports not just football. St Pauli actually run a Rugby team as well believe it or not.
I paid a visit a couple of years ago to the lovely Wildparkstadion in Karlsruhe and I was struck by how organised the coaching set up was. There were kids from many different age ranges having very specific training in small groups being supervised by a couple of coaches. The guy who I spoke to said that the club really needed to develop young players in order to keep them financially sound. I think this sums up German football in general. For the most part clubs seem to have more of a realistic view that they need to aspire to a level of football which is more sustainable. There's none of this investing millions on a complete Pipedream. All the money spent at Portsmouth and they're still at Fratton Park and facing a huge mountain of debt to pay back. I can't imagine this kind of thing going on in Germany. It says a lot for football that this year's Champions League Final between Internazionale and FC Bayern was overshadowed (in this country) by the £90 million play off final between Blackpool and Cardiff. If clubs like Blackpool, West Brom and Burnley are sensible they should take the £60 million in the Premier League and the £30 million in parachute payments and just yo-yo up and down until they find themselves in a strong financial position, which shouldn't on the face of it take too long!
As for introducing Premier League reserve teams into the league. Well I think it might bring some benefits in the development of young players. Instead of keeping young players in non competitive games they would be thrown into matches in competitve leagues. It can't be bad for them can it? As long as the club's can't go any higher than League 1. If there needs to be a bridge between League 1 and the Premiership then players can be loaned to Championship sides.
I think the biggest potential impact of including say 10 reserve sides of the biggest 10 Premiership clubs would be that it might impact the current loan system because potentially the likes of say "Tottenham Hotspur A" joining our league might not facilitate loanees like Adam Smith or Jamie Cox and the trio that Yeovil had last season. But this could be negated by Championship clubs looking to loan their players out as per normal. Another is the possible low away followings that you might get initially. But you might also find that these sides might find themselves getting support from fans getting increasingly disillusioned with Premiership football but wishing to continue a link of sorts with the club. I think it would need a radical shake up within the game and a change in our mentality both in how we deal with the tradition and how realistic we need our clubs to be. What's more important? Building solid setups which produce results or just doing the typical British thing of chucking vast sums of money without actually addressing the issue? At moment I can't see how lower league football can be sustainable for some clubs who like Accrington "survive" on an average of 1400 home gates.
But would the inclusion of playing Man Utd A, Liverpool A, Chelsea A, Aston Villa A, Man City A, Everton A, Arsenal A, Newcastle A, Tottenham A and West Ham A de-value lower league football? At the moment this model doesn't appear to be harming Germany and Spain's development of younger players. I don't believe the Italians have the same set up as Germany and Spain.
If you take Barcelona B for example, not only have they developed the likes of Lionel Messi, Xavi, Andres Iniesta, Victor Valdes and Carles Puyol but they've also had the added bonus of blooding new coaches. Current Barca manager Josep Guardiola spent two seasons as head coach of Barcelona B, as did a certain Juande Ramos back in 1996-1997. Luis Enrique is their current coach. What's the betting that he'll be Josep Guardiola's succesor? Real Madrid run a similar setup and their team has helped produce the likes of Raul, Guti, Ilker Casillas, Rafael Martin Vasquez, Michel, Emilio "The Vulture" Butragueno and a certain Mr Rafael Benitez before he formed The Mavericks and started reading out rants towards Fergie written down on Tesco Extra receipts.