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Post by frankfurt gull on Mar 17, 2010 20:40:23 GMT
lets get the ball rolling, how will England fare and who will be the World Champions 2010?
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Post by chrish on Mar 17, 2010 21:21:10 GMT
lets get the ball rolling, how will England fare and who will be the World Champions 2010? Brazil or Spain. They're on a different level but I think the Dutch might do well and you can never rule out the Germans or Italians. As for England. I think we'll do well to get to the semis, the current team isn't as good as the 1990 one but at least this time we've got a tactically astute manager rather than that daft Swede. A lot will depend on Rooney staying fit and in the same rich vein of form. I'm still worried about the goalkeeping position though.
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Enzo
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Post by Enzo on Mar 17, 2010 22:10:50 GMT
lets get the ball rolling, how will England fare and who will be the World Champions 2010? Brazil or Spain. They're on a different level but I think the Dutch might do well and you can never rule out the Germans or Italians. As for England. I think we'll do well to get to the semis, the current team isn't as good as the 1990 one but at least this time we've got a tactically astute manager rather than that daft Swede. A lot will depend on Rooney staying fit and in the same rich vein of form. I'm still worried about the goalkeeping position though. Now that Sven has made himself a bit of a figure of riducule, it is pretty common for us to look back on his time in a poor light - That daft Swede got us to three major quarter finals on the trot, twice losing on pens and once to Brazil. Not too bad an effort, in my opinion. Our record in qualification was pretty impressive too. Especially compared to the daft Brit that was employed after him. One could argue that Sven wasted the greatest generation of English players.......or that he failed to motivate the players to that all important higher level, but all in all I think the quarter finals is about as much as we can expect as fans. Beyond that any team needs that little bit of luck - as the 1990 team enjoyed against Belgium in only the second round (I think). Give Sven the same amount as slack as you give Bucks! This year will be the same as those years (IMO). We should be able to get to the quarters - with a bit of luck and maybe if Capello can have an effect where Sven couldn't we may go further.
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Post by lambethgull on Mar 17, 2010 22:43:38 GMT
lets get the ball rolling, how will England fare and who will be the World Champions 2010? No proven goalkeeper, one scandal-ridden, slow centre back, another hair-brained centre-back, no fit left back, no proven right-back, an out-of-form Lampard/Gerrard, no proven left or right winger...........just one (albeit very in form) striker of exceptional quality, who has no strike partner. The manager however, has a fabulous art collection and thinks footballers are paid too much.
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Post by chrish on Mar 17, 2010 23:21:22 GMT
lets get the ball rolling, how will England fare and who will be the World Champions 2010? No proven goalkeeper, one scandal-ridden, slow centre back, another hair-brained centre-back, no fit left back, no proven right-back, an out-of-form Lampard/Gerrard, no proven left or right winger...........just one (albeit very in form) striker of exceptional quality, who has no strike partner. The manager however, has a fabulous art collection and thinks footballers are paid too much. That sums it up quite nicely.
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merse
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Post by merse on Mar 18, 2010 4:11:39 GMT
No proven goalkeeper, one scandal-ridden, slow centre back, another hair-brained centre-back, no fit left back, no proven right-back, an out-of-form Lampard/Gerrard, no proven left or right winger...........just one (albeit very in form) striker of exceptional quality, who has no strike partner. The manager however, has a fabulous art collection and thinks footballers are paid too much. That sums it up quite nicely. It certainly does and in Wayne Rooney we have just the one truly world class player who is in such a hot streak of form right now it leaves one to worry that he has peaked far too early. I watched Luceio or however you spell it playing for Brazil at close quarters last week and believe me compared with Terry and Ferdinand that man is a Lamborghini compared to a a couple of tractors ~ he could play with his eyes shut and his arms folded and still get nearer to being Bobby Moore than the "Bobby D'Avro" that our two clowns seem to want to emulate. I believe James Milner could adequately fill the void left by the demise of Beckham...................but really, what was that all about anyway? Becks was only ever going to be a peripheral figure at this World Cup. James is totally unreliable in goal and way past his sell by date and we don't have one single international class keeper to replace him. Had he stayed fit, I'm sure Keiron Gibbs would now be holding down the left back spot but as it is; just what is the fuss over Wayne Bridge all about? Since when was he ever an international class defender?..................and don't start me off about that idiot Ashley Cole Lampard will be no more effective against genuine class than he was for Chelsea the other night against Inter and Gerrard is another past his best and as visionless as any can be when compared with the likes of Messi or Sneijder ~ real world class players. Qualifying for the knock out stages is no achievement at all. Getting beyond the first stage thereafter a possibility rather than probability and THAT is still a sad situation for a nation of only 40% of it's Premier League qualified to play for it and who is having to pay a fortiune to a very good foreign coach just to try and maintain some respectability from a pretty average and uninspiring bunch of comfort zone merchants who pay playing for their country far less priority than loving around and generally seeking to be in the numpty, red top press and glamour mags so as to boost their peripheral earning power. Art collection or no art collection.....................Capello is right, and don't forget HE earned his fortune by playing in the toughest most demanding league in the world in it's time. One where players had to submit themselves to the discipline and demands of the club training camp ~ week in, week out AND he produced the goods to a fantastic degree playing for HIS country too. He was prepared to wait until the physical and mental demands on his body and mind were over before opting for the good life....................something that people like Terry, Cole and Ferdinand have never grasped and sadly never will.
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Post by chrish on Mar 18, 2010 10:51:46 GMT
I did try and post this last night but when I clicked on post my Internet Explorer threw a hissy fit and shut down deleting everything. The curse of working in IT!
In response to Enzo I would say that I've never thought that Sven Goran Eriksson was the correct appointment in the first place as I thought he was about as tactically astute as Kevin Keegan. His not inconsiderable success in Sweden, Italy, Portugal and Italy again was solely down to playing a positive attacking 4-4-2 in rather negative leagues and having a decent amount of resource in place to buy the best money had to offer. I think he's a club manager who needs time and money to gel a side together. As for an international manager I'm not so sure he had the right skillset to manage an international team correctly. I think that after Keegan we needed a Capello, a Lippi, a Hiddink or maybe even an Ottmar Hitzfeld. But when the FA and Adam Crozier first floated the idea of having a Johny Foreigner type running the National team, Sven became the most palatable option. The general public, the media and the powers that be at Lancaster Gate found that the idea of a Swede running the national team was much easier to stomach rather than an Italian, a Frenchman or a German. Post Keegan, we needed someone who would give us an extra tactical edge rather than a foreign version of a British Style Manager.
His success in Italy was first bankrolled by Sergio Cragnotti and his Cirio corporation at Lazio, where he was given £274 million over the course of 4 seasons. At Sampdoria, where he was manager between 1992 and 1997, he was funded by a very rich man called Enrico Mantovani who inherited his father's Oil Company ERG and he brought in players such as Enrico Chiesa, Vincenzo Montella, Clarence Seedorf, Ariel Ortega and Juan Sebastian Veron in additional to players brought into the club or developped by previous manager Vujadin Boskov such as defender Pietro Vierchowod and goalkeeper Gianluca Pagliuca who Sven sold to Internazionale, with Walter Zenga coming in the other direction. So 5 seasons at Sampdoria with just the one Coppa Italia in 1994. A competition taken less seriously by the big teams as the Carling Cup is over here.
You're absolutely right about the teams needing luck to do well in major tournaments and there's so many examples to choose form. In Italy 90 we had awful scrappy games against Ireland, Holland and Egypt in the group stages, we were outplayed in Bologna by an excellent Belgian side where Jan Ceulemans hit the post at least twice before David Platt's superb swivel and volley past Michel Preud'homme, then we need a couple of Gary Lineker won penalties to edge past that wonderful Cameroon side only then to lose in Turin to Germany on penalties, after most commentators agreed that we have been the better side. I think that the Italia 90 side were a better side than the current crop of players, although you could argue that Peter Shilton might have been a few years past his best, but would Chris Woods have been able to save the Andrea Brehme free kick that cannonned off Paul Parker's arse? We'll never know.
You could also look at the two finalists in 2006 and wonder how they both got there. The French were awful but somehow got there whilst the Italians were equally as bad but were tactically superior to Germany in the semi final. In France's case they saved their only good performance of the whole tournament in the semi final and Lippi's tatical nous got his stuttering Italian side past the Germans in Dortmund.
On paper Sven's recore of 3 tournaments and 3 quarter finals looks quite good but we were were outplayed by a 10 man Brazil in Japan and we were lucky to get as far as a penalty shoot out in both games against Portugal especially in the Euro 2004 game. In Japan we never got more than 50% possession and I think the most telling statistic was that even the very direct Swedish side got 54% possession during that game.
I think the main change that Capello has made to our playing style is to try and be calmer yet braver in possession. We're clearly keeping the ball much better under his tenure. He also seems to pick the players he wants to pick rather than trying to appease the media playing both Lampard and Gerrard in half arsed positions, with half arsed instructions to carry out half arsed roles. Ron Greenwood did this with Clemence and Shilton.
As Lippi, Enzo Bearzot and even Arrigo Sacchi suggest having a wily Italian in charge during the World Cup Finals doesn't really harm your case. Even Trappatoni got the Italians to the Final in Euro 2000 getting them past that wonderful dutch side by being tactcally superior to Frank Rijkaard's attacking endeavour. When the few Italians in the crowd unravalled a huge banner with an ironic "Catenaccio" written on it I had to laugh.
I have a feeling during this world cup we'll won't have the same excuses for defeat whether it's a poor refereeing decision to rule out a goal for a foul on a keeper, a young lad wrongly sent off or the weather being too hot. Sven flirted with lady luck as much as he did with the other ladies but she only had so much to give. Having Capello on board gives us an extra edge of having a top class manager who's not afraid to make big decisions when the time calls for them.
Although it's a shame that Beckham won't be in the squad you could say that it closes down another route where the media could disrupt preparations. I don't see Ashley Cole as any great loss and I'm glad that Leighton Baines and Stephen Warnock are now in contention. Milner is a quality player. The John Terry situation might resolve itself sooner rather than later if it's proven that he was pissed when he ran over the steward at 1-2 mph. I see that Gary Neville might be in line for a recall reading the BBC gossip column yesterday. As for goalkeepers. None convince me. Robert Green is a bit of a flapper, James is probably past it and Paul Robinson is limited. Chris Kirkland is injury prone and likes of Scott Carson and Ben Foster just aren't good enough. Joe Hart is probably the best option we have but he lacks experience.
It's funny that Merse mentions Lucio. I can still remember the look on his face when Bolton's Kevin Davies flattened him after 2 minutues in a UEFA Cup tie a couple of years back. He was flustered all game after that challenge. Maybe Fabio should pick Super Kevin Davies. The perfect foil for Wayne I reckon plus it'll scare the shit out of Lucio when we come up against Brazil. We can't compete with them playing football but we can make it more difficult for them this time.
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wolfie
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UTW
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Post by wolfie on Mar 18, 2010 13:29:26 GMT
I can remember when I was 9 maybe 10 and we failed to qualify for the 94 wc I actually predicted there and then that we would win the cup in 2010! Scary stuff for a kid but I doubt I was right otherwise I would be a lottery millionaire by now.
I think it will be Brazil again with England going out again in quarter finals.
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Post by dazgull on Mar 18, 2010 13:39:51 GMT
Will draw with the yanks and beat the others in the group stage and then that might be it, depends on how many of these so called "stars" perform when it matters.
No chance of winning it whatsover.
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Post by lambethgull on Mar 18, 2010 17:54:05 GMT
Art collection or no art collection.....................Capello is right, and don't forget HE earned his fortune by playing in the toughest most demanding league in the world in it's time. One where players had to submit themselves to the discipline and demands of the club training camp ~ week in, week out AND he produced the goods to a fantastic degree playing for HIS country too. He was prepared to wait until the physical and mental demands on his body and mind were over before opting for the good life....................something that people like Terry, Cole and Ferdinand have never grasped and sadly never will. Couldn't agree with you more about Capello, and - my facetious remarks notwithstanding - I consider him to be a class act inside and outside of the game. If anyone can mould this country's missfits and premadonnas into something resembling a team, he can. I like his detached business-like approach - a complete and welcome contrast to Erikson and his gormless successor. Watching how he operates in a World Cup is one of the things I'm looking forward to most about this summer's competition - whether England progress to the latter stages or not.
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Post by aussie on Mar 18, 2010 18:32:07 GMT
I just hope Australia don`t get the cheating Italians again, I hope we get England in a game so we can beat you again and this time in a competitive game so you all can`t say that it didn`t count because the last one was a friendly!
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Post by chrish on Mar 18, 2010 18:34:23 GMT
Art collection or no art collection.....................Capello is right, and don't forget HE earned his fortune by playing in the toughest most demanding league in the world in it's time. One where players had to submit themselves to the discipline and demands of the club training camp ~ week in, week out AND he produced the goods to a fantastic degree playing for HIS country too. He was prepared to wait until the physical and mental demands on his body and mind were over before opting for the good life....................something that people like Terry, Cole and Ferdinand have never grasped and sadly never will. Couldn't agree with you more about Capello, and - my facetious remarks notwithstanding - I consider him to be a class act inside and outside of the game. If anyone can mould this country's missfits and premadonnas into something resembling a team, he can. I like his detached business-like approach - a complete and welcome contrast to Erikson and his gormless successor. Watching how he operates in a World Cup is one of the things I'm looking forward to most about this summer's competition - whether England progress to the latter stages or not. Well this is the point isn't it. Whereas Sven and Steve McClaren might've turned a blind eye to indiscretions you get the impression that Mr Capello won't tolerate the same level of nonsense. To be fair to Steve McClaren at least he's trying to get a decent coaching education at Twente Enschede and let's face it he could've stayed on as Assistant Manager to Alex Ferguson and had an easy life. After Scolari turned the job down he was the best candidate left who wanted the job. The "second choice Steve" tags from the press were hardly helpful in getting the fans on board. His record at Twente is excellent considering he's not managing one of the big three. He's had 93 games, winning 59, drawing 19 and losing only 15. Rumour has it that Spain might be his next place of work. Fair play to him. At least he won't have to put up with the rubbish our moronic Press print. These don't forget are the same idiots who hounded Scolari until he had enough. A classic episode of lunancy if ever there was one. Piss off the favoured candidate and then deride the actual candidate who got the job.
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Post by lambethgull on Mar 19, 2010 11:55:33 GMT
McClaren might have got a hard time from the press as England manager and has done well in the Netherlands, but my abiding memory of the man is not the 'wally with the brolly' image, but that ludicrous interview he gave to Dutch TV where he adopted a Dutch-English accent. Probably the most embarassing piece of footage I have ever seen.
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Post by stefano on Mar 19, 2010 17:22:06 GMT
About 25 years ago Edson Arantes do Nascimento aka Pele said that an African nation would win the World Cup by the turn of the century. He was wrong, but there is a noticeable improvement in tactical awareness and sophistication now not just amongst the African nations but also other developing football countries including the Arab States, the Far East, the USA, and even Australia Did anybody watch enough of the recent Africa Cup of Nations or know enough about football on that Continent to guage which of the six contestants this year (South Africa, Nigeria, Algeria, Ghana, Cameroon, and Ivory Coast) could be in with a shout of seriously contesting the latter stages? The year on year improvement of countries that were previously seen as making up the numbers is evident for all to see, and now that we are seeing the Italian style tactical awareness combined with the Brazilian and Spanish style flair, imagination, and skill, it cannot be long before we see a surprise winner, or at least finalist. All those years ago in 1966 North Korea (yes I know it's not in Africa ) held a 3-0 half time lead against Portugal before going out 5-3. Today I would expect them to win from that position instead of doing what they did then, continuing to play their entertaining carnival style football and just trying to score more than the other side rather than defend a substantial lead. Had they gone through of course North Korea would have been England's opponents in the semi-final. That could have led to the most memorable final of all time. North Korea 4 West Germany 2, with a hat trick from Pak Seung Jim and another from his teammate Yang Sung Kook, the second of Jim's goals being controversial as to whether it crossed the line or not! (I bet you think I made those names up ). Perhaps if we hadn't won it that year we wouldn't have qualified again until 1982 and the four-yearly ridiculous expectation for England to triumph hyped up by the press would not happen. Who coined the phrase 'the Golden Generation'? Whoever it was it's lucky he was writing about them as a journalist and not marketing them as he would have had Trading Standards down on him pronto! A few years later in 1990 Cameroon also would probably have beaten England having established a 2-1 Quarter-final lead, but as with North Korea they played with that naivety that we don't see anymore today with the emerging countries. So to 2010. Ivory Coast to entertain us and emerge from Group G? Looks a really entertaining group containing also Brazil, North Korea, and Portugal. Or maybe South Africa using home advantage and home support to see off the French (bit of English support thrown in as well for that! )? For winners I would look no further than Spain or Brazil this time around (how about that amazing Brazilian defender Lucio? .... we never used to even notice Brazilian defenders!!), but will there be a surprise package to maybe get to the semi-finals? I've got a feeling there will be one, and that it will be a Nation from the Continent we all apparently descend from.
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Post by aussie on Mar 19, 2010 17:29:15 GMT
About 25 years ago Edson Arantes do Nascimento aka Pele said that an African nation would win the World Cup by the turn of the century. He was wrong, but there is a noticeable improvement in tactical awareness and sophistication now not just amongst the African nations but also other developing football countries including the Arab States, the Far East, the USA, and even Australia Very cute!
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