Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 28, 2008 7:02:44 GMT
I must confess, I was somewhat upset,with some who failed to understand why some Of us, wanted to see where the team was after 12 games. It never was about getting to 12 games and asking or demanding that Bucks should be sacked, If after the 12 games, things were not looking too good.
In any journey that you take, that has a goal at the end, there Is nothing wrong with stopping along the way, to check you are on coarse, looking to see If what you are doing Is working and asking should you need to make any changes, to keep you going In the direction you want.
Not sure we will hear Dave Shaw's views, he was one who wanted to look and see where we were, sadly he got upset the other day when he failed to find any support for his views on the forum. My point to him and anyone else has always been, that Its fine to criticize If there really Is a need, but you then must be prepared to give praise where It Is due.
We all know we had a poor start, Bucks was still trying things out, that many felt should have been done only in preseason and not In league games. My view Is If you do not try something new, you will never know If It works Or not.
Putting Hargreaves at the back did not work and Bucks found out It was not working and rung the changes. Since then the team has started to play much better and results have come.
So I think after 12 games, we should all be happy and can now look forward to the rest Of the games this season, with much more hope and really start believing not only in our team, but In our manager, who has shown he as the ability to take TUFC back into the football league.
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 28, 2008 7:33:13 GMT
I must confess, I was somewhat upset,with some who failed to understand why some Of us, wanted to see where the team was after 12 games. It never was about getting to 12 games and asking or demanding that Bucks should be sacked, If after the 12 games, things were not looking too good.  I was upset Dave because the inference was that it was Bucks who was to be judged not the team, and we all know what "judging the manager" means! If the team was deemed out of contention for promotion after just twelve games then it should only by judged by those with integral knowledge of whether or not the squad is "playing for the manager", is responding to him and showing desire; and motivated to achieve results and performance......................if they were STILL doing all of that but struggling for points, I would STILL stick with and back the manager. I would do this because (as the last five games have shown) there is a very fine line between winning and losing in football and it is nearly always down to the eradication of individual error that is the determining factor. As an example, had the keeper "thrown one in" during the last seconds yesterday there would have been outcry at "grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory" yet what could Bucks have done about that? Would it be said that he had made a mistake in signing Bevan as it was when he signed Anderssen? Too many people jump on managers when they don't really know exactly what he is doing during the week anyway, and conversely too many people have supported managers in the past without recourse to how much of the job he is neglecting to do! |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 28, 2008 7:40:13 GMT
Some will never be able to separate, judging the team and the manager separately Merse, some will feel its one and the same, most you will find were only looking to judge the team after 12 games, but we do know one or two, who were only going to judge Bucks.
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Post by andygulls on Sept 28, 2008 16:13:24 GMT
So I think after 12 games, we should all be happy and can now look forward to the rest Of the games this season, with much more hope and really start believing not only in our team, but In our manager, who has shown he as the ability to take TUFC back into the football league. Sorry Dave but that is utter tosh! 5 wins, 3 draws and 4 defeats does NOT demonstrate an ability to take Torquay back into the football league. As indeed an average goals per game of 1.08 does not indicate promotion is on the cards. PB HAS demonstrated an ability to pull the team together and to cope under pressure. I hope he goes on from here, but it remains to be seen just what can be achieved. 12 games is still far too early. As I have said before lets get through to the end of January and we will, after the end of that transfer window, be in a much better postion to review progress made. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 28, 2008 16:53:21 GMT
No need to be sorry Andy, thats you view and one that many will agree with. Yes under pressure and a team not getting results, so the turn around has been excellent. After 12 games only two points outside Of the play offs and with a team that Is not only starting to click, but Is looking like a team, that will continue to win games.
We have seem three different styles played In as many games, so unlike last year,we will be able to change our style to suit our opponent's. Not just one style everyone soon worked out by Xmas last season, so we stopped getting the results needed to go back up.
I did not say he would get us promotion, only that he has shown the ability to do so, for the reasons I stated at the start Of this post. Therefore I see no reason not to continue believing that we will have a good chance to go back up this season.
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Sept 28, 2008 17:01:34 GMT
We certainly can't win the league after 12 games (pity, considering the start we had last year) but if we were still hovering around the relegation zone at present, then with the lack of confidence at this stage it is doubtful that we could win it.
What we have shown is that we can win a run of games, both home and away which does bode well for the season. The proof is in the pudding in that not many fans are shouting Buckle out at the moment and this is a better indicator at this stage than after three or four games into the season and in a few cases even earlier!!!
My personal opinion is that Buckle had a good first season, Play Offs, Trophy Final and even a nice little FA Cup earner along the way. O.K., he got off to a poor start this time around and made a few mistakes but maybe he has earned a little slack and hopefully he can now go on and prove that his detractors were very wrong. With the additional squad members assembled by Buckle it is possible that we could go one better and collect a non league trophy whilst still keeping the likes of Hargreaves fresh for the only meaningful competition (promotion).
Whether we will achieve anything this year remains to be seen but in the meantime I will give my utmost to support both the team and manager because he ain't going anywhere. Next review - End of Term in May.
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Post by andygulls on Sept 28, 2008 18:31:35 GMT
We have seem three different styles played In as many games, so unlike last year,we will be able to change our style to suit our opponent's. Not just one style everyone soon worked out by Xmas last season, so we stopped getting the results needed to go back up. Whilst PB did seem like a rabbit in headlights as far as tactical changes went in the 2nd half of the season, I would contend that early on he was adventurous within games often switching from a 4-4-2 to a 4-3-3 and occasionally going with an extra man at the back. For me it was after the boxing day game at Exeter that he seemed to become afraid of making changes. It maybe that he determined that his players were not up to the adjustments required, a point I think Merse makes. We will NOT go up this season for as long as we fail to score sufficient goals. That is our Achilles heel. We have not scored more than 2 goals in a game since mid April and it would appear that again the inability to finish yesterday cost us the win. |
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 28, 2008 18:54:57 GMT
We all know we had a poor start, Bucks was still trying things out, that many felt should have been done only in preseason and not In league games. My view Is If you do not try something new, you will never know If It works Or not. Well Oxford United went all pre-season unbeaten and a fat lot that told their manager about them! All pre-season does is get the players sharpness ready for competitive football, it does NOT tell you how various tactics or line ups will work in competitive football because neither side is playing in a fully competitive way....................therefore new methods can only be fully evaluated in competitive situations. How long does it take some people to realise that simple fact? As Dave says, if you try nothing you learn nothing and stand to gain nothing. To which I would add..................and you will go backwards. |
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 28, 2008 19:02:54 GMT
It maybe that he determined that his players were not up to the adjustments required, a point I think Merse makes. We will NOT go up this season for as long as we fail to score sufficient goals. .................and that is why he has progressively added to the squad since Adams arrived last January. The new arrivals have increased the options and now they've assimilated in to the particular and rather unique work ethic and team spirit that Bucks insists upon, we are beginning to build momentum. On the goal scoring front, I believe we are beginning to fire on more cylinders now that individuals are learning more about their new found team mates. Of course the manager is always on the lookout for that "magic" scoring talent that may become available!  |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 28, 2008 20:14:52 GMT
Andy, you will not see this team scoring four Or five goals a match, lets us not forget, when we were doing that last season, we were letting in nearly as many.
My view Is that we will win games by scoring only one or two goals a match, yesterday by all accounts, was more down to some excellent keeping by the Wrexham keeper. It seemed we created plenty Of chances and stopped Wrexham getting hardly any.
You will get games where you are completely on top Of the other team, yet due to many reasons, do not get the three points. No one has beaten this team, Of the park, but we are starting to play teams Of the park ourselves, you do not get any more points by scoring more goals than you need to win and that only has to be one.
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Post by andygulls on Sept 28, 2008 20:42:07 GMT
Andy, you will not see this team scoring four Or five goals a match, lets us not forget, when we were doing that last season, we were letting in nearly as many. My view Is that we will win games by scoring only one or two goals a match, yesterday by all accounts, was more down to some excellent keeping by the Wrexham keeper. It seemed we created plenty Of chances and stopped Wrexham getting hardly any. You will get games where you are completely on top Of the other team, yet due to many reasons, do not get the three points. No one has beaten this team, Of the park, but we are starting to play teams Of the park ourselves, you do not get any more points by scoring more goals than you need to win and that only has to be one. Dave you ignore the stats. Do you want me to post yet more? We WON games scoring more goals than our opponents - We are failing to win games because we cannot score more than our opponents. we average only just over 1 goal a game and guess what we are conceding the same. You do the math! |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 28, 2008 21:27:04 GMT
Andy your stats and the work you put into them are first class. I do not Ignore them, but I have had to learn In life that there Is a need to look forward and not backward.
The only time I feel the need to do that now, Is to see If there Is anything for me to learn, Or to check, If I'm at a place I have been before. The fact Is in four Of our last five games, we scored more than the other team, that Is why we did in fact win them.
If we do the same In the next five games we will win those as well, I would care not If we won by one gaol only in each those games. The problem with figures Is that we could win three games by one goal and lose the forth game by three goals, the average would show we scored three and conceded three.
Maybe In life I have to take a much different view these days, maybe I have to keep as positive as I can, so I view everything with more hope than maybe I should, who knows? But I would rather have It that way than looking on the darkside and really after the team has played better and got the results to prove It, I see no reason why I should.
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tufc01
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Post by tufc01 on Sept 28, 2008 22:28:15 GMT
Andy, you will not see this team scoring four Or five goals a match, lets us not forget, when we were doing that last season, we were letting in nearly as many. My view Is that we will win games by scoring only one or two goals a match, yesterday by all accounts, was more down to some excellent keeping by the Wrexham keeper. It seemed we created plenty Of chances and stopped Wrexham getting hardly any. You will get games where you are completely on top Of the other team, yet due to many reasons, do not get the three points. No one has beaten this team, Of the park, but we are starting to play teams Of the park ourselves, you do not get any more points by scoring more goals than you need to win and that only has to be one. Dave you ignore the stats. Do you want me to post yet more? We WON games scoring more goals than our opponents - We are failing to win games because we cannot score more than our opponents. we average only just over 1 goal a game and guess what we are conceding the same. You do the math! I think we are overlooking a key point. The issue for me isn't the lack of goals, we had goals in the team yesterday, but for the woodwork (twice) their keeper (three times) and a goal line clearance. Yet they had one chance and took it. For me the problem lies at the other end. I think we have more defensive frailties than attacking problems. At least the front 3 look like they can score, unfortunately the back 3 look like they could concede a hatful. 2 clean sheets from 12 tells its own story I know we have had a few injuries in that department, but i still believe this is the area that needs addressing. Woods scares me, its a shame he doesn't scare the opposition as much. Todd is always prone to a mistake, as is Ellis. Robertson doesn't seem to be quite ready yet. You only need to score once per game to win it, but you also need that clean sheet. |
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 29, 2008 5:25:10 GMT
AndyGulls obviously has a great love of statistics but statistics are not facts.................they merely support facts. These stats support the facts over the season so far, they do not support the facts of the past five games;and were they applied to them the story would be different. Equally, were they applied to the five before that they would support a relevant fact for those and those games only. So with respect, facts of games gone are irrelevant when applied to games in the future and those with the greatest relativity are surely the most recent games. What I'm trying to say is that the team are currently playing and performing better than AndyGulls' stats suggest!
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Enzo
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Post by Enzo on Sept 29, 2008 8:31:01 GMT
It maybe that he determined that his players were not up to the adjustments required, a point I think Merse makes. We will NOT go up this season for as long as we fail to score sufficient goals. .................and that is why he has progressively added to the squad since Adams arrived last January. The new arrivals have increased the options and now they've assimilated in to the particular and rather unique work ethic and team spirit that Bucks insists upon, we are beginning to build momentum. On the goal scoring front, I believe we are beginning to fire on more cylinders now that individuals are learning more about their new found team mates. Of course the manager is always on the lookout for that "magic" scoring talent that may become available! Would you be able to expand on the "particular and rather unique work ethic and team spirit that Bucks insists upon" ? How is it particular and what is unique about it? Thanks |
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I was upset Dave because the inference was that it was Bucks who was to be judged not the team, and we all know what "judging the manager" means!
