Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Nov 16, 2010 16:34:35 GMT
Thanks mate... was beginning to think I'd completely lost the ability to get a point across!! I did get the point you were trying to make Leigh  but did you get mine? Saying the team played poorly and Barnet are better than than league position suggests, are two different statements. It was the fact you wanted to state the second one and say it was to put some balance into the thread, that I had problems with  In my view such things are normally only said when a team fails to beat a team it might have been expected to beat. If the team played well and discovered the other team were better than they expected I myself might make such a statement. I just felt as the team played poorly and it would not have mattered how well Barnet played or if they were in a false position in the league or not, the statement could not be used to try and balance anything. |
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Post by Budleigh on Nov 16, 2010 17:44:58 GMT
All I now know is I've got a headache!!
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Post by aussie on Nov 16, 2010 18:10:46 GMT
All I now know is I've got a headache!! Not being funny ;D or anything but it`s a bit like a Mersism, it`s called "divide and concour". First your point gets discected in to bits so that each and every bit can be argued without the other bits counting. i.e you can`t possibly play poorly and the other team be playing above where their league position states they are, no, this when dismantled is easier and far more effective as an arguement against! Go back through the posts and have a look at how it is done, it`s how Alan used to rip peoples opinions to bits, I know, and you end up with a head ache just like you`ve got, simply because the meaning is in the entirity of the aguement and not in it`s sub parts. You can play below par against a team who is performing o.k, football wise, but the results haven`t turned up for them. It`s not so long ago, about a month, when we were actually playing some good stuff and not getting what we deserved points wise( how many times have we hit the f*cken woodwork for gods sake), this is the case with Barnet only it has lasted a lot longer for them. If you use the stats method of agueing then you can easily break that into bits to show how shit they are, but in reality they are not far off getting results to turn for them! I figure that sometimes some people just refuse to see what`s in front of them, or as the case maybe as they weren`t there and didn`t see it anyway, are just going off others opinions and stats! So your argueing a totally friutless battle and really should be shown a bit more respect for your opinion which is just as important as anyone elses. I in no way mean to offend anyone with the text above, after all it`s just my opinion and I don`t have a problem if people don`t agree with me. I just find it difficult to see why people can`t understand where Leigh is coming from or is it a deliberate wind up? |
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Post by aussie on Nov 16, 2010 18:57:24 GMT
Or maybe I`ve missed the point completely!  If that`s the case then someone please enlighten me!  |
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Nov 16, 2010 20:42:03 GMT
Or maybe I`ve missed the point completely! If that`s the case then someone please enlighten me! Well Aussie it’s like this, I have not dissected the post made by Leigh nor have I tried to wind him up. I Know he said he was not trying to defend the teams poor performance and I was just simply pointing out such statements like that are often made to somehow justify when a team does not beat the team that is bottom of the league. Some fans will always see such a statement as being chucked in just for that reason, even if it was not the case. I have great respect for Leigh’s opinions, but that does not mean I have to agree with them, I also respect the opinions of those who wrote match reports and the views of Dave Thomas. Leigh was I know just trying to point out they may be a far better side than their league position suggests, in a post you made on this thread you stated “I know we`ve played better and today we were poor for peroids but you could also see why they are bottom of the league.” You know I was not at the game so yes I can only go on what I read, I did not read on any report that Barnet were a very good side and that’s why we only got a draw. I did read we only created one good move and Paul Buckle was the one that said that. I did read we were very disjointed and played hoofball up to our small forwards. I would like to know from anyone at the match if they felt Barnet were a side there for the taking? A side if we played as well as we can we should have beaten. If the answer is yes, then I see nothing wrong with making the point that we should not have to take into consideration that their guys feel they are better than their league position indicates. Did our team earn the right to win the match? did they play the better football.? I really do not believe players take to the pitch and feel the game is won even before the kick-off because they are playing the bottom club. If they do then such ideas need to be gotten out of their heads by the manager. Everyone knows teams at the bottom are often hard to beat because they do work hard to try and get their season turned around, so yes no fans should ever just expect an easy three points. No more than the players should either. Having different view points from others and expressing then Aussie, is perfectly normal and should not be confused in the way you seemed to have confused them. Right I hope that has not given Leigh another headache ;D |
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Jon
Admin
Posts: 6,912
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Post by Jon on Nov 16, 2010 20:44:38 GMT
Thanks mate... was beginning to think I'd completely lost the ability to get a point across!! And your point is ........ ;D |
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Post by bobbytanz on Nov 16, 2010 21:44:11 GMT
Quality bit of banter here involving Budleigh !!!! My own view on the game was that we alcked the ability to control the game, Barnet were quicker than us and therefore rushed us into mistakes. I agree with Budleigh that Barnet aren't that bad BUT as Brian Clough said a side is NEVER to good to go down !!! I also thought the little man in balck was appalling and didn't help the game at all. Ok, thats my quick view and just to see if there is a bite out there, perhaps a viewpoint from our representatives maybe be useful, from our mole in the boardroom  |
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Post by Budleigh on Nov 16, 2010 22:39:25 GMT
If Torquay United were playing at their best they would be expected to beat the team at the foot of the table, Barnet; indeed, if they were playing at a mediocre standard or below par they would be expected to beat Barnet.
But if Barnet where to play at their best then they may expect to beat United if United are playing at the bottom of their game. But if United are playing mediocre football compared to Barnet's best then it would be fair to say a draw may result. But then if they were both playing to a standard of mediocre football prevelant to their league position then United would win. Therefore if Barnet where to play mediocre football, relative to their position, to United's poor football, as on saturday, then a defeat is still the only probable outcome...
So for this draw to have happened Barnet have to be better than their league position suggests as a mediocre Barnet performance would still not have avoided defeat against a poor United team.
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Post by stefano on Nov 16, 2010 22:45:04 GMT
I've totally lost it now just popping downstairs for my tranquilisers! |
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Post by lambethgull on Nov 16, 2010 23:59:29 GMT
All I now know is I've got a headache!! Not being funny ;D or anything but it`s a bit like a Mersism, it`s called "divide and concour". First your point gets discected in to bits so that each and every bit can be argued without the other bits counting. i.e you can`t possibly play poorly and the other team be playing above where their league position states they are, no, this when dismantled is easier and far more effective as an arguement against! Go back through the posts and have a look at how it is done, it`s how Alan used to rip peoples opinions to bits, I know, and you end up with a head ache just like you`ve got, simply because the meaning is in the entirity of the aguement and not in it`s sub parts. You can play below par against a team who is performing o.k, football wise, but the results haven`t turned up for them. It`s not so long ago, about a month, when we were actually playing some good stuff and not getting what we deserved points wise( how many times have we hit the f*cken woodwork for gods sake), this is the case with Barnet only it has lasted a lot longer for them. If you use the stats method of agueing then you can easily break that into bits to show how shit they are, but in reality they are not far off getting results to turn for them! I figure that sometimes some people just refuse to see what`s in front of them, or as the case maybe as they weren`t there and didn`t see it anyway, are just going off others opinions and stats! So your argueing a totally friutless battle and really should be shown a bit more respect for your opinion which is just as important as anyone elses. I in no way mean to offend anyone with the text above, after all it`s just my opinion and I don`t have a problem if people don`t agree with me. I just find it difficult to see why people can`t understand where Leigh is coming from or is it a deliberate wind up? It's a forum, Aussie, not a book of condolence. There's no abuse here, just debate. It's hardly a revolutionary suggestion that a side that is bottom of the League in November may not be there at the end of the season. Nor a stunning surprise that a team with better away form than home form dropped points at home. My connections at Edgeley Park tell me they're better than some of their results of late too |
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Post by aussie on Nov 17, 2010 6:57:53 GMT
Not being funny ;D or anything but it`s a bit like a Mersism, it`s called "divide and concour". First your point gets discected in to bits so that each and every bit can be argued without the other bits counting. i.e you can`t possibly play poorly and the other team be playing above where their league position states they are, no, this when dismantled is easier and far more effective as an arguement against! Go back through the posts and have a look at how it is done, it`s how Alan used to rip peoples opinions to bits, I know, and you end up with a head ache just like you`ve got, simply because the meaning is in the entirity of the aguement and not in it`s sub parts. You can play below par against a team who is performing o.k, football wise, but the results haven`t turned up for them. It`s not so long ago, about a month, when we were actually playing some good stuff and not getting what we deserved points wise( how many times have we hit the f*cken woodwork for gods sake), this is the case with Barnet only it has lasted a lot longer for them. If you use the stats method of agueing then you can easily break that into bits to show how shit they are, but in reality they are not far off getting results to turn for them! I figure that sometimes some people just refuse to see what`s in front of them, or as the case maybe as they weren`t there and didn`t see it anyway, are just going off others opinions and stats! So your argueing a totally friutless battle and really should be shown a bit more respect for your opinion which is just as important as anyone elses. I in no way mean to offend anyone with the text above, after all it`s just my opinion and I don`t have a problem if people don`t agree with me. I just find it difficult to see why people can`t understand where Leigh is coming from or is it a deliberate wind up? It's a forum, Aussie, not a book of condolence. There's no abuse here, just debate. It's hardly a revolutionary suggestion that a side that is bottom of the League in November may not be there at the end of the season. Nor a stunning surprise that a team with better away form than home form dropped points at home. My connections at Edgeley Park tell me they're better than some of their results of late too Obviously I have come across the wrong way! I know what I meant! |
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Post by ospelgull on Nov 17, 2010 7:26:40 GMT
If it's any consolation... The in form team in League One; Charlton Athletic only managed to throw Barnet out of the FA Cup by a single goal. That is over two games. And yesterday the Addicks goalkeeper was the hero of the day with some first class saves.
But what's gone is gone, roll on Stockport County and hopefully the Gulls will be at their (normal) best again to keep our very good away form going!
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Post by lambethgull on Jan 1, 2011 23:32:37 GMT
Seems like the Barnet Chairman wasn't convinced by Stimson's Barnet side. In the relegation zone by the New Year means it's curtains...
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In my view such things are normally only said when a team fails to beat a team it might have been expected to beat. 
If that`s the case then someone please enlighten me! 
