Post by rjdgull on Jul 31, 2011 7:42:29 GMT
On a site such as this, it always goes quieter in the gap between seasons and with everything looking fairly rosy at the club coupled with England not in a major tournament this year there has not been a great deal of debate. Our previous weekly winner wrote the following about this site:
So, following the dreadful bombing and shootings in Norway, it was great to see a thread started that went on to encompass some good and in depth debate. There hasn't been much voting going on recently, hence the gap since the last Potw, but the winner this week contributed greatly to this thread, so well done again to JamesB and keep up the good work. A sample from this thread which is well worth a read if you haven't already:
Because he is one
In fact, what he has done is very un-animal-like, because last time I checked there were very few, if any wild animals that kill just for the sake of killing - they all kill to eat
I haven't read through his rather large manifesto and I doubt I will, but those who have say that he has coherent, if extremely radical views, and that he seems to be quite well-educated. He just lost any form of rational perspective at some point along the way, hence why he now believes it was "necessary" to kill many innocent people and that he is a warrior fighting a war against the left who have encouraged immigration (particularly Muslims) and "destroyed" Norwegian culture and national identity
It's not like he just flipped, like Derrick Bird who went on the rampage in Cumbria last year - this guy has been planning this attack for the best part of a decade. The best, most well-known comparison I can think of that has been made throughout this is with Timothy McVeigh, the man who bombed the Murragh Building in Oklahoma City, who was incredibly anti-government (the same as ABB), primarily as a result of the Waco Siege
And the thing is, it's easy to bash a guy like this Norwegian chap (not that I'm saying it shouldn't be done or anything). It's also easy (and "cool") to bash the American right for their loony views, for instance. But I find it both quite funny and very disturbing that often the ones criticising these people actually hold quite similar views themselves, especially when it comes to things like immigration. A lot of people don't realise how conservative they actually are. We like to think of ourselves as a progressive society (hence Cameron's constant use of the word during the last election - it's meaningless, because you can't be conservative and progressive, as the two things mean completely opposite things), but actually I think we are closer to American conservatism than the progressiveness of continental Europe
Norway is a great example of this, and it's quite surprising an attack like this could come from there as it was previously believed that the far right in Norway is very small. It seems there's very little to complain about, even though they have a very liberal legal system. Surely that is proof that, despite what much of the British people think about liberals living in a utopian fantasy land and that we should grind criminals into the ground, liberal legal systems system work, unlike the punishment-based British system and resulting high re-offending rates. What has happened to inspire Breivik to commit these terrible acts is paper talk, the same sort of scaremongering we get from many of our papers as well
This is why the media, especially the likes of The Daily Mail and The Sun, are at the moment (or, in the Mail's case, always has been) very dangerous, because they are encouraging the spread of dangerous ideas based on lies and half-truths. And honestly I wouldn't be surprised if there are now follow-up attacks in other countries
Jul 17, 2011 1:23:15 GMT @bartondowns said:
[ I’m a little regretful it’s lost much of its quirkiness and eclecticism but these things come in cycles. It’s a Torquay United site so it’s only reasonable that the main topic of conversation is Torquay United (yet, at the same time, it’s perfectly permissible that we veer in other directions). At the moment I guess it reminds me of how the old Mervo site was for most of its history rather than the TFF of, say, 2008-2010. That’s not necessarily a bad thing but – once the TUFC-focus goes above a certain level – we have to accept that things can become more intense and contentious So, following the dreadful bombing and shootings in Norway, it was great to see a thread started that went on to encompass some good and in depth debate. There hasn't been much voting going on recently, hence the gap since the last Potw, but the winner this week contributed greatly to this thread, so well done again to JamesB and keep up the good work. A sample from this thread which is well worth a read if you haven't already:
Because he is one
In fact, what he has done is very un-animal-like, because last time I checked there were very few, if any wild animals that kill just for the sake of killing - they all kill to eat
I haven't read through his rather large manifesto and I doubt I will, but those who have say that he has coherent, if extremely radical views, and that he seems to be quite well-educated. He just lost any form of rational perspective at some point along the way, hence why he now believes it was "necessary" to kill many innocent people and that he is a warrior fighting a war against the left who have encouraged immigration (particularly Muslims) and "destroyed" Norwegian culture and national identity
It's not like he just flipped, like Derrick Bird who went on the rampage in Cumbria last year - this guy has been planning this attack for the best part of a decade. The best, most well-known comparison I can think of that has been made throughout this is with Timothy McVeigh, the man who bombed the Murragh Building in Oklahoma City, who was incredibly anti-government (the same as ABB), primarily as a result of the Waco Siege
And the thing is, it's easy to bash a guy like this Norwegian chap (not that I'm saying it shouldn't be done or anything). It's also easy (and "cool") to bash the American right for their loony views, for instance. But I find it both quite funny and very disturbing that often the ones criticising these people actually hold quite similar views themselves, especially when it comes to things like immigration. A lot of people don't realise how conservative they actually are. We like to think of ourselves as a progressive society (hence Cameron's constant use of the word during the last election - it's meaningless, because you can't be conservative and progressive, as the two things mean completely opposite things), but actually I think we are closer to American conservatism than the progressiveness of continental Europe
Norway is a great example of this, and it's quite surprising an attack like this could come from there as it was previously believed that the far right in Norway is very small. It seems there's very little to complain about, even though they have a very liberal legal system. Surely that is proof that, despite what much of the British people think about liberals living in a utopian fantasy land and that we should grind criminals into the ground, liberal legal systems system work, unlike the punishment-based British system and resulting high re-offending rates. What has happened to inspire Breivik to commit these terrible acts is paper talk, the same sort of scaremongering we get from many of our papers as well
This is why the media, especially the likes of The Daily Mail and The Sun, are at the moment (or, in the Mail's case, always has been) very dangerous, because they are encouraging the spread of dangerous ideas based on lies and half-truths. And honestly I wouldn't be surprised if there are now follow-up attacks in other countries