Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Nov 5, 2008 12:50:50 GMT
I think most Of us expected to see changes In the team last night, that played against Weymouth In the Setanta Shield match.
Bucks put out the strongest team possible got most Of them to play the whole game, even when the result was safe.Most seem to believe that keeping the winning mentality, Is very important and the main reason Bucks put out the team he did.
My own concerns were that we must not run the risk Of burning out key players, Or risking them getting in Injured, In games that are not that important, compared to winning promotion.
My other fear Is that players like Green, Adams and all the rest who don't even get a game Or part Of any game. will start to grow discontent at the club.
This would have a big effect On the dressing room and resentment can and will creep in, making the relationships between some players become unpleasant.
I ask the question, Is It just that Bucks wants the team to keep winning at all costs? because there will be costs If we just keep picking the same side every single game.
You see at the start Of the season, Bucks had a plan that on paper looked good, he wanted to play midfielders as defenders and we all know the thinking behind those Idea's. Now I do believe that If you do not try something you will never know It It will work Or not.
If I did not believe that then this forum would not be here, but Bucks problem was, that he became stubborn and stuck with his new way Of playing, even when It was clear It was not working.I also question the timing Of such an experiment, I simply believe league games should not have been used, to try out this new way Of playing.
When everything seemed dark and our team was not winning, make no mistake that Bucks was a very hurt and unhappy man.
Many fans had their knifes out for him, posts made On forums, were anti Buckle and I bet he was not sleeping very well.
His family life would have been effected, It would be very hard just to switch Of from his job and go home carefree. Now he has come very close to being named the manager Of the month, for the last two months.
Life for Bucks has to be so much better, he has a smile back On his face, while fearful that a losing run, would bring back those dark days again. So I wonder how much those days are on his mind when he picks the team.
It could be that he has It all working well now and simply does not want to do anything to break It, I could understand the reasons why he would think like that.
We have a squad Of 22 players, I believe we need to use more Of the squad, If only to keep the dressing room happy and keep the fringe players match fit and hungry to step Into the first team when required.
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eddyh
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Posts: 57
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Post by eddyh on Nov 5, 2008 13:06:15 GMT
Dave - Whilst I agree in part with your comments I think the fear that players will not be ready when called upon cannot be substantiated when you look at the season so far. In the last couple of months players such as Woods, Hodges, Robertson, Ellis, Green, Benyon, Carayol, Dsane and Thompson have all been called upon to come in the side due to tactical changes, injuries and suspension. All of these have thrived on the opportunity and in general managed to hold their place in the team down.
I would argue that today there is real competition for a place in every game and that is driving the fringe players on rather than them becoming disillusioned that there is no room for them in the team.
I believe Bucks is currently trying to show the whole squad, that if you get a chance to come in to the team and grasp it with both hands, you have every chance of cementing your place in the team. Whether it's FA Cup / Trophy / Setanta Shield or the league, for now I think this policy makes a lot of sense.
There will undoubtedly be times where players may need a rest due to either fitness or form, but whoever replaces them will want to know that if they come in to the team and perform at the correct level, they can expect to keep the shirt even when the rested player is ready again.
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Post by scottbrehaut on Nov 5, 2008 13:22:31 GMT
I think the fact that Benyon scored a goal last night after only playing half the match pushes the arguement of "fringe" players not being ready out of the window.
I always go down the route of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and it would appear that Bucks has adopted that same mentality. Add to that the fact that many of our players are adaptable, and can play in numerous positions, and suddenly the situation looks a lot better.
I think you need to look at both sides of the arguement - you say that players become disillusioned if they are not getting picked - imagine how they would feel if Bucks ONLY picked them for the shield games, or the Trophy games - they may think that they are only considered good enough to play so called minor games, which also could drag their morale down.
I know that playing every game isnt good, and risks the chance of injuries to key players, but that can be said of every game - what if we were playing a key BSP game and Sills went down injured - couldnt be prevented regardless of how many games he played. We should rejoice in the fact that if Sills was injured we have the likes of Benyon, Green, and Dsane chomping at the bit to play - Dsane is now looking good (according to reports) so let him play up front, and we still have Carayol and Carlisle as our two wingers (and the added pace of Danny Stevens to call upon too)
Hodges and Nicholson seem to have created good competition for the left back place, Woods is like a changed player since he was called upon earlier in the season (maybe he knows that every performance is being scrutinised now, and that Ellis is ready and waiting to take his place should he put a foot wrong)
Right back - Mansell has made this his own, but Thompson at a push could go there if need be.
I have already touched on the wingers, our midfield pairing of Greavsey and Wroe have really gelled, and the report on last night said that Wroe bossed the midfield - a man currently playing at the top of his game shouldnt be rested, rather keep him on and encourage him to continue the way he is - he is fully aware of the talented players he is keeping out of the side that would love to replace him should the need arise.
So, to summarise, I think Bucks has got it right at the moment - and those on the bench have been set a standard, they know what they have to do to get in the team, and they know that once in there they have to make it tough to dislodge them from the team......would anybody want to drop Woods for Ellis on current form? (Merse excluded as he doesnt like him!)
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Post by weathergull on Nov 5, 2008 15:11:14 GMT
I'm all for players fighting for a first team place. Surely though, ALL players in the squad should be given some sort of chance!
Which just 'aint happening for the likes of Brough and Adams.
I'm sure Brough has not played a single moment this year and if Adams has it weren't a great deal.
I know we want to keep this winning run going, but please Paul Buckle give these poor guys a chance! At least put them on the bench as subs!
With all the hype that came with these two surely they can't be THAT BAD!!!
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Post by stargull on Nov 5, 2008 15:18:54 GMT
St Albans last year was supposed to be the chance for our fringe players to make their case. The result was a disjointed and horrible performance that robbed us, I feel of lots of our momentum. I know that was last year, and I think the fact that was a Saturday game makes a difference too, but I want my club to have the attitude that we're out to win every single game. That means not taking stupid risks, but if the players were up for it (as they obviously were) then why change a winning side?
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Post by capitalgull on Nov 5, 2008 15:20:41 GMT
Brough played at Crawley and gave away a penalty.
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Post by weathergull on Nov 5, 2008 16:26:27 GMT
Brough played at Crawley and gave away a penalty. Ooops  |
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Nov 5, 2008 17:19:43 GMT
Great replies and some excellent points made, all that make good sense. The real question was, would Bucks be afraid to make changes, fearing that by doing so and losing some games, He could then come under fire again.
Scott feels that If It Is not broke then don't fix It, a fair point, but why should playing a few different players break It, do we not have a squad Of better players than last year, who should be able to come In and do a job and keeping the balance Of the team.
The point Is what happens If he made changes, lets say he did and the team lost, then the fans blame him for making changes to a wining team. Yet If he picks the same as the last game, then lose the game, some will then say we needed to have changed some Of the players for that game.
Bucks could sit back and say, that as he picked the same winning team, there Is noway any fan could fault his decisions.That Is why I asked, Is he afraid Of change, just in case It did not work.
eddyh feels that players not getting games will not have any problems over this, I do disagree. The likes Of Green and Adams came here, more expecting to feature In most games and most footballers want to be out on the pitch playing.
Mind you we all know a few sick notes, who were happy just to draw their wages and enjoy the easy life. So Benyon scored after coming Off the bench last night, well against a team already beaten and we know anyway that he has always been able to make an Impact, coming on as a sub.
How many times have we seen a player put into a game and play poorly, only for people to defend him, by saying he Is rusty, not played much this season, bound to need time to get match sharp. So saying that players are just happy to compete for a starting place and then believing that they will be able to play their best game, does not add up for me.
The fringe players and not even getting any friendly games, no real completive football, so how can they be match sharp. They can't. so one thing that Is needed, Is to get some games for these players, teams like Dawlish will be fine and will be a huge benefit for those not making the first team.
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merse
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Post by merse on Nov 5, 2008 17:50:20 GMT
......would anybody want to drop Woods for Ellis on current form? (Merse excluded as he doesnt like him!)  That's both presumptuous and inaccurate. "Liking" has nothing to do with team selection, and personally I wouldn't change a thing at present. I think all the players at the club appreciate that he who holds the shirt in a run like this, keeps the shirt. I really think people on here make too much of this so called "dissatisfaction" it's just another facet of being a professional footballer I'm afraid. Without injury or suspension, the only way back for Ellis at the moment is if the manager feels he particularly needs an injection of extra height in the centre of defence for a particular game. Likewise the factor of playing a weakened side last night...............I'm sure the manager puts great store in the benefits to be gained from the players gaining motivation for each individual game by the retention of the record. It's the sort of stimulus one can't dream up on the training ground; and by the eye witness account of Anthony, last night hardly drained the physical resources of those that did play anyway. |
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petef
Match Room Manager
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Post by petef on Nov 5, 2008 18:27:33 GMT
Fact is we have more quality in depth than we had last year and particularly during this recent run of form I have noticed that every time a change has been forced any palyer coming into the side has looked every bit as good as the one he has replaced.
The real test I fear is that if we lose Tim Sills, who will fil that role/? for all of the criticism he has faced his style and leading the line has been outstanding factor in our recent success.
One thing is for sure and that is the early season form and criticism and abuse has united the players and staff and ultimately brought out the best in all of them.
This really is a real United squad.
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jamie
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Posts: 354
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Post by jamie on Nov 5, 2008 21:09:10 GMT
I have previously posted this in the weymouth matchday thread but with hindsight it probably fits better here.
Maybe i am being naive ? but i have no real concern about playing a first team in this cup. I understand the arguement that it is a nothing cup and i accept the risk of players being injured, but the arguement of burning players out just dosen't stand up.
If the game was on a thurs night and we were away on the sat then maybe............... but this was a tues game and our next game is on a sat at home to a non league team. Surely professional players with their fitness levels can handle that?
keep the momentum going lads, enjoy the feeling of winning!
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Nov 5, 2008 21:45:52 GMT
Jamie I was not saying that the players would be burnt out playing the game On Tuesday, I was looking more long term and the effects a long season would have on the players. I really hope that near the end Of the season, If we fail to get the results we may need to get Out Of the BSP, then those who feel Its fine to keep the same players every game, do not moan then. Because I would break one rule I have and then I would be able to say I told you so |
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Post by scottbrehaut on Nov 5, 2008 22:22:13 GMT
......would anybody want to drop Woods for Ellis on current form? (Merse excluded as he doesnt like him!) That's both presumptuous and inaccurate. Made you bite though!!  |
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barnsleygull
TFF member
I'm keeping a brass eye on everything..........
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Post by barnsleygull on Nov 5, 2008 23:19:25 GMT
unless there is injuries,
dont change a winning team.
end of.
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Nov 5, 2008 23:29:12 GMT
unless there is injuries, dont change a winning team. end of. Can't be the end barnsleygull ;D I got to get more debate out Of this thread yet, It only has about 70000 words on It, must be good for another 70000 words ;D |
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