Rob
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Post by Rob on Jan 18, 2018 0:42:16 GMT
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jan 19, 2018 0:31:14 GMT
So now let's move North East to Hartlepool. and see what the members of the Hartlepool United Supports Trust have been being told over recent days and weeks. You know the people, those loyal fans paying in monthly so that a safety net would be there. If their club was struggling to survive, as supporters they'd do what they could to come to the rescue. Good of AJ to highlight the horrendous position that Hartlepool supporters have been pushed into by reckless owners and to highlight the wonderful work that Supporters Direct has done in so many places to save or to resurrect football clubs that would otherwise have been lost. So many clubs owe their existence to the expertise that Supporters Direct has brought to the table in assisting local trusts. As far as I know, not one of these clubs has relocated to Stalingrad or Pyongyang and no members of the bourgeoisie have been found hanging from the floodlight pylons at these clubs. I am sure that many appreciate the wonderful work that our TUST board do and their selfless dedication to preserving the long-term future of professional football in Torquay, but some might question whether this small band of enthusiasts has sufficient knowledge or experience to know what to do when a crisis strikes. Fortunately, for just a small annual subscription, they have access to a central body that has a huge wealth of experience in these matters. Of course, a local trust has every right to refuse to learn from others' mistakes and is at liberty to refuse to take expert advice on board, but what reasonable person refuses to listen to sound advice from experts? Hartlepool, Newport and Torquay have a hell of a lot in common. All three traditionally struggled for support in the Football League for years. All three have been extremely fortunate to have had the backing of benevolent benefactors who possibly lulled fans into expecting more than they should expect. Lottery winners at Newport and Torquay and a Norwegian tax dodger at Hartlepool. All three saw their benefactors back away at around the same time. Newport grasped the nettle. The owner told the supporters the truth of the situation and, with the help of Supporters Direct, the fans united to save the club - raising capital through a community share issue and drawing on the expertise available to draw up a sustainable business plan. How proud their fans must be of what they have achieved. How they must have enjoyed that FA Cup win over Leeds and pulling out Spurs in the next round. Look what fans can achieve when outgoing owners seek to unite them rather than seeking to divide them. Hartlepool fans were not so fortunate. They were told to shut up, not rock the boat and leave things to those who know best. Those who said they were headed for trouble were branded as troublemakers by those who were happy with the assurances that all was well. Then the fans, who had been told all was well, were suddenly presented with a horrible ultimatum. Hand over £200k within a few weeks or the club dies. A nightmare scenario that I have been keen to avoid for Torquay United but I fear will come to pass. The reflex reaction is to hand over the cash. Heart rules the head. Handing over the cash means we have a club, not handing over the cash means we don't. But this is a far different scenario from the Newport one. This is not a case of raising capital to underwrite a long-term business plan. It is a blind panic to throw cash into a black hole. It will see the club past the next pay day, but not past the next one after that. And those who blindly panic will accuse those who try to keep a clear head of betraying the club. Things can get very nasty. Supporters' Direct is clearly helping by warning of the hole that the trust would have dug itself into by paying the staff their net wages and not thinking beyond that , but the kind of supporter that AJ so remorselessly parodies may struggle to keep a clear enough head to take the advice on board. Of course, paying the staff their pay is picking up only part of the payroll tab. Roughly half as much again will be payable to HMRC - the tax and NI deducted from employees plus the employer NI contribution. A trust paying off £200k in wages in a panic would incur an HMRC liability of around £100k payable some three weeks later. Newport, Hartlepool and Torquay are very similar sized clubs. People might say they are all small, unloved clubs but that is far from true. All have played a major part in their local communities for generations and the wider football community cares about all of them. Hartlepool fans could raise the cash to pay off the £200k, I am sure of that. Could they raise enough to pay off the following tax bill that Supporters' Direct has so sensibly reminded them of? Maybe. But by then the well would be dry and what would happen next? There obviously would not be enough money to pay the following month's wages. So a one-off opportunity to refloat the club would have been thrown away in order to keep the owners who got them into the mess going for another month. What a waste of all that goodwill, all that enthusiasm and all that hard-earned cash. No wonder that Supporters' Direct pragmatically recommends that trusts "see the books" before committing cash. How Hartlepool fans must wish that their owners had been honest with supporters in the way that Newport's had.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 10:27:40 GMT
It's high time we got on to previewing the Livermead Cliff jamboree, that now isn't many days away. But I know TFF members are not only saddened by the current plight of Hartlepool United, but also fascinated by the flip-flopping position of it's Supporters Trust. Well they've changed their position again, and come up with a cunning ruse that might even see Uncle Clarke doff his cap to them. A quick reminder: in late December Hartlepool's Supporters Trust voted to launch a 'major national fundraising campaign', and telling the public that "The HUST campaign is to raise money for a fighting fund to cover operational costs through to June. It would be a tragedy if the club was saved in January only to fold in February. We cannot, as supporters of the club, let that happen". link - HUST To The RescueBut, as any experienced Trustwatcher could have predicted, Supporters Direct top brass in London didn't look upon such an outcome as a tragedy at all; very much an opportunity to be exploited in their eyes, and so the 'No Fundraising' command was issued from Head Office. Now while ordinary fans have done well to raise cash to try to get wages paid etc, while the search for a new buyer for the club continues, Trust's attitude wasn't going to win it many friends. A PR disaster for Trust Officials to try to explain away, and it appears that Head Office realised there was no option other than a climb down, and agree to some form of collection being launched. With the Hartlepool Mail today reporting that the Supporters Trust 'says it is in response to a large amount of people contacting the trust wanting to make donations' In other words, annoyed fans demanding Where the ---- is that major national fundraising campaign you were going on about ? It's nearly the end of January, get off your backsides and help ! But here's the clever part. They are now launching a fundraising campaign, but in aid of raising funds for the Supporters Trust instead ! Then with some masterful unspecific wording hope to bring in contributions from far and wide. Starting off by stating the one thing I can't see Head Office letting them use the money for: 'On the fundraising page, the trust says: ' It could help sustain the club until the end of the season', and then sneakily tagging what is surely their much preferred use of the cash, to help finance a Trust owned reformed football club, as the ' worse' use of the money. link - Trust 'Help' At LastNot the end of the Hartlepool situation by a long chalk, nor of HUST's dubious role in 'helping' save the club. Apologies that no full colour picture of Jeff Stelling accompanies this post .
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jan 26, 2018 0:35:50 GMT
I know TFF members are not only saddened by the current plight of Hartlepool United We have been through this one already Alpine - quoted again below. With a local business man deciding, after looking at the books, that his proposed £1.5million cash injection would be throwing money into a black hole, it is even more important for Hartlepool United supporters to understand that it is best not to throw their money into a black hole. Well done to HUST for being the voice of reason. Good luck to them in preserving football in Hartlepool. At least the council has not done anything daft with the freehold, so there is still some hope. So now let's move North East to Hartlepool. and see what the members of the Hartlepool United Supports Trust have been being told over recent days and weeks. You know the people, those loyal fans paying in monthly so that a safety net would be there. If their club was struggling to survive, as supporters they'd do what they could to come to the rescue. Good of AJ to highlight the horrendous position that Hartlepool supporters have been pushed into by reckless owners and to highlight the wonderful work that Supporters Direct has done in so many places to save or to resurrect football clubs that would otherwise have been lost. So many clubs owe their existence to the expertise that Supporters Direct has brought to the table in assisting local trusts. As far as I know, not one of these clubs has relocated to Stalingrad or Pyongyang and no members of the bourgeoisie have been found hanging from the floodlight pylons at these clubs. I am sure that many appreciate the wonderful work that our TUST board do and their selfless dedication to preserving the long-term future of professional football in Torquay, but some might question whether this small band of enthusiasts has sufficient knowledge or experience to know what to do when a crisis strikes. Fortunately, for just a small annual subscription, they have access to a central body that has a huge wealth of experience in these matters. Of course, a local trust has every right to refuse to learn from others' mistakes and is at liberty to refuse to take expert advice on board, but what reasonable person refuses to listen to sound advice from experts? Hartlepool, Newport and Torquay have a hell of a lot in common. All three traditionally struggled for support in the Football League for years. All three have been extremely fortunate to have had the backing of benevolent benefactors who possibly lulled fans into expecting more than they should expect. Lottery winners at Newport and Torquay and a Norwegian tax dodger at Hartlepool. All three saw their benefactors back away at around the same time. Newport grasped the nettle. The owner told the supporters the truth of the situation and, with the help of Supporters Direct, the fans united to save the club - raising capital through a community share issue and drawing on the expertise available to draw up a sustainable business plan. How proud their fans must be of what they have achieved. How they must have enjoyed that FA Cup win over Leeds and pulling out Spurs in the next round. Look what fans can achieve when outgoing owners seek to unite them rather than seeking to divide them. Hartlepool fans were not so fortunate. They were told to shut up, not rock the boat and leave things to those who know best. Those who said they were headed for trouble were branded as troublemakers by those who were happy with the assurances that all was well. Then the fans, who had been told all was well, were suddenly presented with a horrible ultimatum. Hand over £200k within a few weeks or the club dies. A nightmare scenario that I have been keen to avoid for Torquay United but I fear will come to pass. The reflex reaction is to hand over the cash. Heart rules the head. Handing over the cash means we have a club, not handing over the cash means we don't. But this is a far different scenario from the Newport one. This is not a case of raising capital to underwrite a long-term business plan. It is a blind panic to throw cash into a black hole. It will see the club past the next pay day, but not past the next one after that. And those who blindly panic will accuse those who try to keep a clear head of betraying the club. Things can get very nasty. Supporters' Direct is clearly helping by warning of the hole that the trust would have dug itself into by paying the staff their net wages and not thinking beyond that , but the kind of supporter that AJ so remorselessly parodies may struggle to keep a clear enough head to take the advice on board. Of course, paying the staff their pay is picking up only part of the payroll tab. Roughly half as much again will be payable to HMRC - the tax and NI deducted from employees plus the employer NI contribution. A trust paying off £200k in wages in a panic would incur an HMRC liability of around £100k payable some three weeks later. Newport, Hartlepool and Torquay are very similar sized clubs. People might say they are all small, unloved clubs but that is far from true. All have played a major part in their local communities for generations and the wider football community cares about all of them. Hartlepool fans could raise the cash to pay off the £200k, I am sure of that. Could they raise enough to pay off the following tax bill that Supporters' Direct has so sensibly reminded them of? Maybe. But by then the well would be dry and what would happen next? There obviously would not be enough money to pay the following month's wages. So a one-off opportunity to refloat the club would have been thrown away in order to keep the owners who got them into the mess going for another month. What a waste of all that goodwill, all that enthusiasm and all that hard-earned cash. No wonder that Supporters' Direct pragmatically recommends that trusts "see the books" before committing cash. How Hartlepool fans must wish that their owners had been honest with supporters in the way that Newport's had.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jan 27, 2018 18:34:17 GMT
Newport grasped the nettle. The owner told the supporters the truth of the situation and, with the help of Supporters Direct, the fans united to save the club - raising capital through a community share issue and drawing on the expertise available to draw up a sustainable business plan. How proud their fans must be of what they have achieved. How they must have enjoyed that FA Cup win over Leeds and pulling out Spurs in the next round. Look what fans can achieve when outgoing owners seek to unite them rather than seeking to divide. Looking good for them at half time against Spurs, too. Hope they are enjoying themselves. They deserve it. Edit: And a replay at Wembley to come.
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Jan 28, 2018 7:17:55 GMT
Newport grasped the nettle. The owner told the supporters the truth of the situation and, with the help of Supporters Direct, the fans united to save the club - raising capital through a community share issue and drawing on the expertise available to draw up a sustainable business plan. How proud their fans must be of what they have achieved. How they must have enjoyed that FA Cup win over Leeds and pulling out Spurs in the next round. Look what fans can achieve when outgoing owners seek to unite them rather than seeking to divide. Looking good for them at half time against Spurs, too. Hope they are enjoying themselves. They deserve it. Edit: And a replay at Wembley to come. Cracking game - made a lot of money from the match plus the replay. Not sure why, but always have a soft spot for Newport. Yeovil, how many times have they played Manchester Utd (3 times). Exeter always seems to get a decent club. The benefits of winning FA Cup matches...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 16:27:25 GMT
TUST'S BIG NIGHT OUT
Well the big day has arrived. TUST's 'Call to action' was issued, and this evening we should learn what sort of response it solicits. There are those believing that a radical new agenda will be argued for this evening, and those who think the real plan is no more than to recruit a few more volunteers to add to the 3 or 4 who are currently on leaflet duty, or covering other TUST tasks.
Personally, I think the overriding importance for TUST is the turnout tonight. That will say more about it's credibility than anything. This meeting has been well advertised on the Forums and had publicity both via Devon Live and on the Herald Express podcast. It really is crucial that an impressive crowd of local TUST members realise the importance of providing a show of strength at the Livermead Cliff this evening.
For local councillors who have an important part to play in the future of the football club, this meeting will be a barometer. They are elected by, and have a mandate to represent the people of their ward. They are not mandated to speak for or represent the inhabitants of Barnsley, Chesterfield, Wigan or London. Nor to take notice of people living outside of the local area, possibly with no connection to the club or using multiple email addresses to tap into 'online petitions'. Instead, what they will be interested in is seeing to what extent TUST seems to be representative of Torquay United fans here in Torquay !
Does the local population both join TUST and support it ? Do the local fans actually come out to back TUST ? Many are sceptical, and therefore this well publicised meeting, at an important point for the club, needs to be able to report back that it was standing room only at the Livermead Cliff Hotel tonight. Anything less, or again appearing to be a small but militant group, with no obvious claim to speak for the greater proportion of local fans, and Councillors will have no option but to give careful consideration to just how much relevance they give to TUST and it's publicity machine. Local fans representatives ?...let's have a look to see the scale of the justification for such a claim tonight.
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Jan 30, 2018 22:40:14 GMT
You certainly have a good imagination Alpine. Think of it like a hustings meeting where you can talk to your elected representative about the direction of travel that you wish to take. One chap did travel down from the other side of Taunton after picking up a TUST leaflet so at least someone read it!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 14:26:50 GMT
We're just as well to follow the manoeuvrings of Hartlepool United Supporters Trust (HUST) through to the bitter end, as regards the severe problems at the football club. The football club's finances are looking bleak, and it's no surprise that the Hartlepool Mail today reports that: ' as things stand, they are struggling to make ends meet with a number of bills overdue, as well as wages and running costs to cover between now and the end of the month'.
With a fund set up to raise money to attempt to help combat these shortfalls and stave off administration, we can all imagine what the football club thought when HUST launched a competing fund in aid of HUST. With both funds running alongside each other it's anyone's guess whether they'll both be sufficiently diluted to make either able to serve their purpose. The Football club not raising enough to pay the bills, but also HUST not having raised enough to make the necessary financial contribution to gain them partial club ownership as part of a future consortium. Whatever the Football club may think, HUST were perfectly at liberty to initiate there own fund. Although such a course of action was clearly not a recipe for competing bucket shakers to exchange friendly smiles. Let's check in with HUST Chairman Ron Harnish to tell us how things are going: 'One thing we have been told by potential investors, and I am sure Jeff Stelling will confirm this if asked at his talk In, is that perceived division between the fans is becoming an issue'.
Division between the fans Ron ? I expect you're as shocked by the rest of us to learn of this. Whatever could have caused it ? You'd almost think that one section of fans had recently started pulling in their own direction ! Any other gems from 'Honest' Ron ? Yep, here's another one, on the subject of a phoenix club: "Obviously this is the option none of us really want to think about, and it would naturally be a last resort". you should be on the stage Ron, tell us another one. You can bet your bottom dollar that Ron is slavering at the very thought of a phoenix club. His first choice, or possibly the choice Supporters Direct's Mr.Mathie makes for him, might be to form a consortium with other investors that HUST can be part of, but a wholly HUST controlled Phoenix club must come a close second. Further details on Honest Ron, HUST, and their new committees here: link - Honest Ron In The Best Interests Of The ClubFurther news from the North East when Ron is next on manoeuvres
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 12:32:59 GMT
There came a time when the Marxists accepted that the Free Market had just made the working class too well off, too well fed, and too comfortable with an abundance of consumer goods, and that the old ‘Class War’ rallying cry to ‘oppressed ‘workers was just never going to make an impact in the prosperous West. And we all know what tactic they turned to, yep that’s right….’Identity Politics’. They switched their more general 'the workers are oppressed' line of attack, and spread the message that, for instance, if you were Gay you should identify as a community oppressed by straight people, if you were a woman you should identify as a Feminist, as you were part of a group oppressed by men. If you had dark skin you were part of a black community oppressed by whites etc etc. Identity Politics has knocked Class War into the very back seats, as the Left work hard on stoking up the grievance culture. Every Corbynista is well versed in this, and they push it relentlessly. But this Hard Left doctrine isn’t confined to Labour Party branch meetings in Abbott or Corbyn’s constituencies, or among the Supporters Direct rulers also unsurprisingly are to be found up in London. No, it can be seen far closer to home, just up the road in fact….and is just waiting for the chance to infect and then take over our football club as well. Here’s a little insight into last Thursday’s gathering of a politically correct Corbynista branch meeting.....oops no it's not, it's actually last week's Exeter City Supporters Trust meeting....Identity politics leading the way as you'd expect: link- Exeteremists - Clearly Dyed In The Wool Cobynistas It’s perfectly possible that many within the Trust/Corbynista movement do have a passing interest in football. But we must open our eyes to their primary motivation. While so many ordinary fans would and do avoid Trust meetings because they have no wish to indulge in discussions dripping with Left wing politics, this is the very reason that the Militants gain control and are able to get their Hard Left politics dominating Trusts up and down the country. It’s not just the Exeteremists, as they’re no exception to the rule. It’s clear to anyone who cares to look: Trusts attract Corbynistas like moths to a flame. You don’t have to support Osborne, you can prefer different owners, but don’t believe anyone who tells you that there is only one alternative to Osborne, and that you should therefore help finance their Marxist/Corbynista takeover with your monthly membership fees. If you don’t support Osborne then root for a sensible alternative instead, rather than surrender to the all pervading political correctness that Brent Putin-ick is also now pushing on behalf of you know who. By all means remain sceptical of Osborne, but do that without advocating the extreme alternative of consigning us to life under the jackboot of Community Communism. #ResistCorbynism #ResistTrust
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simonb
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Post by simonb on Feb 19, 2018 17:25:50 GMT
Just leave everything to the free market and all will be wonderful (fake news).
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Feb 19, 2018 23:50:12 GMT
Alpine – not sure where to start with that post. Equating a question about diversity to an all white male board that represents the fans, to a hard left political hotbed is one hell of a jump to make?
I think you miss the point of TUST- it is only there to provide an option to keep the club going where the alternative is much worse.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Feb 20, 2018 0:14:31 GMT
Alpine – not sure where to start with that post. Equating a question about diversity to an all white male board that represents the fans, to a hard left political hotbed is one hell of a jump to make? I think you miss the point of TUST- it is only there to provide an option to keep the club going where the alternative is much worse. Give him a chance. He'll catch up eventually. One week ago he did not even accept that Osborne regularly fails to deliver on promises to build stadia and fully believed we would be in the Osborne Arena by 2020. Having finally realised that this is not going to happen, he just wants to take time to sift through all of the benevolent private ownership offers that are on the table. Once he has done that, he might just - in true Sherlock Holmes style - come to the conclusion that once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. He'll get there before Jim Parker does!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2018 12:26:59 GMT
All aboard the Trust bus ! We've not given it a spin for a few weeks, so today's as good as any, particularly as it'll be colder at the weekend. We're getting near that time of year where the Trusts are gearing themselves up to complain about upcoming season ticket prices. Bristol City Trust have been one of the first out of the blocks, and a special mention to the Spurs Trust who are up in arms about season ticket price proposals at the new ground before it's even been built ! But if we survey things down nearer our level and take the bus up North, it's more a case of things soon to happen, one way or another, than anything that's been resolved. The Hartlepool situation rumbles on. HUST hoping to raise funds to join a consortium mainly financed by Jeff Stelling and Raj Singh (the former Darlington Chairman), should it get off the ground. No guarantee that it will and more bills are looming. Another episode in the fun and games at York City is due next week. On Thursday York's Trust vote on whether to hand over their 25% shareholding in the club to Chairman Jason McGill. However, with the vote getting nearer, speculation regarding Corbynite infiltration gains ground. Trust membership suddenly growing 36%, from 666 to 910 just since the end of January. Have the extreme Left been mobilised ? The result of the ballot might provide the answer. At Community owned Chester FC things remain dire. As the local paper reported on 12th March: 'For the first time when asked if Chester would be plying their trade in the league below next season, Bignot (Chester FC's Manager) nodded in agreement and admitted high-earning players must now be moved on between now and May in order to safeguard the future of the cash-strapped club. Three more first-team players left Chester last week by mutual consent, with Bignot praising Jordan Chapell, Liam Davies and Paul Turnbull - who has since joined Stockport County - for their professionalism. "It's never easy for the players," he continued. "It's never easy when players want to stay and they're told they are no longer wanted'.But let's finish with something more upbeat, and congratulate dear old Bradford Park Avenue for, in their words, deciding to ' face reality', and ditching the broken model of ownership: 'Two years ago the club became a Community Benefit Society (a “CBS”), intending that its ownership should be spread amongst the local and regional community. However, very few new members have joined. As a CBS the club is entitled to issue Community Shares to potential investors, but the law provides for a maximum of £100,000 in community shares for any individual, which is not enough to make a crucial difference. In addition the CBS is heavily indebted to its current benefactor, and as an investment opportunity the club in its current form is unattractive'.'The directors have decided to face reality, and they propose to change the structure of the club so that it becomes a privately owned enterprise, from which investors can potentially earn dividends or at least look to recover their investment at some point in time'.link- Park Avenues Experiment With Communism Ends In Failure
Tickets on sale for another Trust tour again soon
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 17:15:07 GMT
YORK CITY - IT'S A TOTAL TRUST WRECK !!Fares please ! Stopping off at the Millthorpe School in York to survey the damage done to York City Football Club after a night of Militant madness. But first to Hartlepool. Any thoughts of Hartlepool Utd falling into Administration and picking up a 10 point deduction can surely now be completely discounted. The sale of the club for £1 is as good as concluded it seems. The former owners getting repaid a portion of owed monies over a dozen seasons or so, depending on circumstances. The collection to raise money to keep the club in business was highly successful and mentioned in previous posts. The way a certain fans organisation conducted itself....well, opinions differ. As for the present, it's financial doping by the council which would surely now arrive in sufficient sums to see them through to the end of the season, even if the current takeover collapsed. Assembling a squad they can't afford, but now a further loan from the Council, this time £77,000 to pay wages. Yes, that's North East football and politics for you, that Hartlepool are so hard up that they can afford to slash admission prices as a huge dollop of Council Tax Payers money arrives to cover the wage bill. But it's at York where it's been a really exciting week, culminating in a situation where it appears the Militants have brought down owner Jason McGill. York City's future will now be taking a different path, depending on the ownership it settles on, but one thing for certain is that McGill's enthusiasm and ambitions for the club will now be irreparably damaged. McGill concedes. Full time score: McGill 0 Militants Won. Fans concerns:
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