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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 16:24:19 GMT
What's the verdict on this book? I bought it from our local Oxfam today and while obviously it is of much more interest to anyone who actually experienced the 1996/7 season at Plainmoor I have to say I find Garry Nelson irritating. If he spoke to the players in the same tedious fashion in which he writes then I bet the squad were happy when he left.
The bits about which players were lazy/hard working/possessed of good/bad attitude are really interesting but it's the padding that gets on my nerves. All that "Hodgy" and "Nelse" stuff. The man was obviously a Plymouth Argyle supporter! I certainly have the impression, so far, that Torquay was just another job for Nelson and a useful tool for his writing career (although it seems to have stopped once he left) and find his attitude to TUFC a patronising one. But then again I am a harsh critic and maybe being unfair.
Perhaps some Gulls fans like the book? I'd be interested to know what you historians think of it. Personally, at the moment I have to say that I wish Martin Kuhl had kicked some of the smugness out of him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 17:24:32 GMT
I've only read the book once and that was long ago upon publication. I enjoyed it because, well, it was a book about Torquay United.
Had it been about another club I may have been disappointed. That's partly in keeping with Wildebeeste's reservations about Garry Nelson's literary style. Although he was a good enough and sufficiently insightful writer not to rely upon a ghost, a wee bit of tweaking in the background may have helped. But the publishers were clearly happy to go along with the project after the success of his first book.
I don't believe Nelson came to Torquay to write a book. There was clearly a project to be done with his old mate Kevin Hodges. They weren't together long but I believe they were a quiet success at Plainmoor and it was encouraging to see a more "thinking approach" as opposed to the up-and-at-'em hairy old centre-half style of management we'd often seen in the past. But, yes, I don't think it took Nelson long to see the publishing potential of coming to Torquay.
Fifteen years later the book is worth reading for its insights into the somewhat ramshackle nature of life at Plainmoor in those days. For sure the times were better than they had been under Webb. But compare it to now and it looks rather rundown. Indeed, Jon has astutely described the Bateson years as those of boom-and-bust. That 1996/97 season was an important part of the recovery from a "bust" and paved the way for a much better 1997/98 that almost ended in promotion. Curiously Mike Bateson had one of his back-seat spells that year with all sorts of stories circulating about his attitude towards the team going up. Hodges did an excellent job and appeared set for better things. It wasn't a surprise when he went to Argyle but he wasn't a great success there. But he stayed in football and later went back to Argyle as a youth coach.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 12:23:08 GMT
I think the problem is actually that the book has been over-edited, Nick. I note that inside the cover it says copyright Garry Nelson and Anthony Fowles so I am guessing that Mr Fowles was there to knock the manuscript into shape. Trouble is that all the edginess has been removed; I want to know more less about where Garry Nelson's children go to school and more about what goes on in the dressing room. I might be an old hippie but I still think a book about a football club should have some swearing and violence in it. Hunter Davies's The Glory Game was an account of a season, written in 1972, but it still seems fresh today. So far LFITG is a bit too much like reading about the Grammar School First XI.
Jon Gittens sounds like a handful, mind. What are your memories of him?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 13:01:22 GMT
Strange you mention the Glory Game because I re-read several football books from the 1960s and 1970s over the last winter. And that was the one that stood out.
I guess Garry Nelson's book was part of the 1990s publishing boom which was in the wake of fanzines, word processors, Sportspages and the Italian World Cup. There was some brilliant stuff published but also plenty of dross. It seemed that virtually anything to do with football had the chance of being produced for "everybody who loves the beautiful game" as the dust jackets had a habit of saying. In time I learnt to distrust any reference to the beautiful game. My arse. It's football.
Nonetheless split those books into four divisions and I'd still put Nelse's book in the second tier. It was good to have a well-selling book featuring TUFC.
Certain similarities with the more recent book by Chris Hargreaves which I can lend you.
And, in the context of this forum, we better emphasise that Garry Nelson went to grammar school in Southend rather than Torquay. Just wait until Jon and myself pen our People's History of the Beautiful Game in Torquay (volume 2 Third Division South: Struggle, Mediocracy and Occasional Excitement 1927-1958).
Did I inadvertantly say Beautiful Game?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 15:15:20 GMT
Brilliant. That's the Foul annual and the Chris Hargreaves book promised. I'd offer something in return if I didn't suspect you had already read every football book ever written.
How about the 1968 All Stars annual, Get Your Writs Out and Felix McHugh's totally balanced and not at all grumpy account of life as a local welfare rights worker in a typical Northern town?
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Post by bristolgull on Aug 7, 2012 22:02:26 GMT
I remember reading this book when it was first published, I couldn't quite belief that somebody had actually written a book about a season with Torquay! I recall quite enjoying it for just that reason. I did read Nelson's other book as well but didn't enjoy it as much which may say as much for his writing style as anything else. Left foot in the grave aside, the best football book I've read was called 'a season with Verona' by I think, Tim Parkes. One man's story of following Verona home and away for a season when they were in seria A. It really shone a light on all elements of Italian league football, mostly the crowd violence, corruption and police crowd control tactics! Certainly worth a read!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 7:02:46 GMT
Vaguely recall reading some of it in the Grauniad and there was some very scary stuff about an away match in the south (was it Reggina?) and also a quite shocking account of Italian acceptance that important matches at the end of the season would be fixed. That hasn't happened here since Mansfield bribed their way to promotion from Division IV in 1963!
I have read some more of Garry Nelson's book now and am enjoying it more, although skipping through the dull bits helps. I bet those Luton fans aren't quite so cheerful now, eh?
For a player's diary of a season though I still haven't seen anything to top Eamon Dunphy's acccount of the collapse of his career with Millwall in 1973/4. Definitely a "first tier" book, that one.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 9:11:32 GMT
Dunphy's was another book I re-read a few months ago. Still liked it the second time around and I was reminded of the impact it made upon me in the mid 1970s.
I also read Arthur Hopcraft's "The Football Man" again. In terms of "first reads" this is one of my real favourites as, in a wonderfully well-written way, it explores various aspects of the game in a way that hadn't been done before. Read the Amazon review and somebody calls it "dated". This brings the retort that, after all, it is a book about football in the 1960s. Well, I can see what they both mean. Hopcraft's book now appears less extraordinary. But's only because later writers have followed his trail.
Didn't enjoy John Moynihan's "Soccer Syndrome" as much as when I read it as a re-issue in the 1980s. The bloke writes well but it's too clever in places and too southern posh boy (mates with Brian Glanville, etc). And, if there's such as an individual as "a real football fan", Moynihan has looked down upon without meeting. Mind you his chapter on the 1965 Torquay v Spurs cup tie, complete with wealthy London hangers-on staying in Torquay's best hotels, makes for fascinating reading.
And, yes, I planned to read Tim Parks' book about Verona again. It didn't happen because I needed something fresh. But it's a great book and I think I'm correct in saying it was written at the time of our 2000/2001 season which ended at Barnet. Look for the parallels even if our trip to "The Hell of The South" was a fairly limp affair at Home Park.
In terms of loans I'm afraid to say all of the above went to Oxfam just after Christmas. I'm now flicking through assorted copies of a Soccer Star 1967-1969 prior to these finally leaving my possession after all these years.
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Post by ohtobeatplainmoor on Aug 8, 2012 14:20:17 GMT
I enjoyed this book - but haven't read it since I bought it on release so can't vouch for the quality.
I do recall some interesting coverage of the 'Gittens incident' which was rumoured at the time. It was also eye opening to see just how much the club was cut to the bone in terms of infrastructure. If nothing else, it gives an interesting comparison to show how far the club has come in the last 5 years.
Ooh Ah Stantona was the last football related book I read and it was interesting, not only about the life of a colourful character but also some interesting first hand account of the Falklands conflict.
Are you including 'All Played Out' when talking about Italia '90, Barton? Probably the first 'gritty' book on football that I've read. Do I correctly recall reference to Plymouth hooligans taking acid and falling-off a cross-channel ferry? I'm sure they have a photo of the front cover of The Sun which refers to it, but in the subsequent reprints it doesn't include this element......
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 16:47:59 GMT
Nearly finished the book now and I apologise for my first opinion. What it needed was either a promotion run or a disastrous spell leading to fear of relegation and the team decided to help Garry out by choosing the second option. This made the narrative much more interesting and also educational. How little do fans realise what goes on in the dressing room and on the training ground, which is why every Saturday up and down the land they moan that the manager is an idiot who should be sacked because he insists on playing useless X rather than charismatic Y. What the manager knows and the fan doesn't is that X tries his hardest and obeys directives from the bench while Y is bone idle and a troublemaker.
My goodness though, that must have been a depressing time to be a Torquay supporter. It must have looked as if there was no way back sometimes. Really great that things are so much better and everyone more optimistic now. For the Spireites, 1996/7 was our semi-final year and we would have made a once-in-several-lifetimes appearance in the Cup Final had Jon Howard not hit the bar with that sitter and David Elleray not refused to consult his linesman, who would have told him that the ball crossed the line when it came down.
Even then some of our fans were moaning, though. The fanzine editor (a miserable bleeder, to be sure, and a Southerner to boot) even wrote a book claiming that he hated manager John Duncan so much he wanted Middlesbrough to win the semi. Blimey! If he thought things were bad at Saltergate he should have spent the season on the terrace at Plainmoor, eh?
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Post by ohtobeatplainmoor on Aug 9, 2012 18:44:42 GMT
It wasn't too bad that season, in fact it was a hell of a lot better than it was the season before when we had the second worst team between the mid 80's and the present day! Whilst we had a dismal end to the season (I think we won only once or maybe twice at home from New Year's Day to the end of the season and perhaps only once or twice away) we did ensure we were mathematically safe from relegation with a couple of games to spare - which probably isn't hugely dissimilar to at least half a dozen seasons since automatic relegation came-in.
I read in the Herald Express today that Roy McDonough has an autobiography out. Now he was a character - and some of it makes pretty eye opening reading and a good alternative to enjoy while we're waiting for Dave Caldwell to come out with his memoirs!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2012 16:25:48 GMT
What happened next? At the end of the book Nelson had left, disillusioned, Mike Bateson had pulled the financial plug and there were hardly any players left. And yet the history books tell us that the following season the Gulls made it to the play offs. How was this miracle achieved?
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Post by ohtobeatplainmoor on Aug 11, 2012 22:30:05 GMT
A simple (!) combination of the following:
- Rodney Jack was fit, confident and too good for the fourth division and he tore so many teams to bits
- Jon Gittens retook his place in the team after the fall-out during Nelson's time that saw him told he had no place at the club and was majestic
- Gary Clayton and Steve McCall rolled-back the years with some great midfield performances
- Fullbacks Andy Gurney and Paul Gibbs came to the club at the same time, they were cheap and basically were two of the best I've seen as a supporter
- Chairman's son-in-law Richard Hancox aka Dickie Divot had no involvement in the playing side of the club (can't remember if he was cleaning the toilets or something else?).
- Jason Roberts joined us on loan from Wolves and we won most games he played in.
- Kenny Veysey came back to the club from playing part-time and was very steady in goal
All the recruited players were on a fairly shoestring basis and they performed well above the levels that anyone had any right to expect for even twice the wages. Bateson himself had apparently no direct day-to-day running as he handed the reigns over to Mervyn Benney and didn't attend matches.
The end of the season was painful though - Rodney Jack gashed his knee (was it training on a public pitch IIRC - or was it in a match?) and we became toothless for 3 massive games. We struggled towards the line over the last few weeks but still only needing a draw at Orient (who had nothing to play for) on the final day to secure promotion - despite winning just twice in the nine games leading up to that match. We were two down within half an hour and there was no way back, despite Alex Watson hitting the bar in a frantic end to the match - it was horrible coming back down the M4 and M5 after that defeat - but not as bad as finding out that Justin Fashanu has taken his own life, which put the football in perspective.
We were brilliant in the play-off semi, but were pedestrian in the final and Colchester didn't have to get into third gear to beat us.
I felt far more disappointed in football terms after the season that saw us get so close to promotion in 97/98 than the team that flirted with relegation the previous year. It was always going to be the case that clubs with more financial clout would snap-up our top performers and our manager - and so it came to pass. As much as it hurt at the time, no-one could blame them. Definitely rates up there with the boys from 87/88 who also went so close to get promotion against all the odds (but just missed-out in tough circumstances)- even the promotion winning teams of 90/91 and 93/94.
The following season saw us increase the budget significantly (we got the best part of a million quid for Rodney Jack and Matt Gregg so that helped!) but sadly so much of it went on players that didn't provide anything like the same value.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2012 6:46:15 GMT
Now that would have made a great book, albeit with a sad ending. Just been reading an excerpt from The Secret Footballer in yesterday's Guardian magazine and it is of no interest at all other than to leave the reader feeling annoyed and slightly depressed. Premiership players rattling around in their mansions, having it off with each other's wives in swimming pools and living it up in Dubai and Las Vegas, are so far removed from reality they might as well exist on another moon. In Left Foot In The Grave we read about players paying their own train fare to get a trial with a club that couldn't afford to pay them a decent wage in any case, and others who must have known they were certainties for the axe long before they got the news of their release at the end of the season. Far easier to identify with those guys, don't you think? Here's what a frustrated football follower of my acquaintance had to say earlier this year, before the John Terry court case, Modric's strike, Mancini complaining about not being allowed any more millions to spend, Joey Barton's latest adventures etc etc..... londonprogressivejournal.com/article/view/1008/aint-football-great |
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Post by ohtobeatplainmoor on Aug 12, 2012 20:00:10 GMT
Yes, I certainly do identify with the sort of players who are really not that removed from us and probably get paid less than many of the supporters that watch them. Totally different for some of those players (but by no means all of them) in the top flight that would be horrified with meeting 'the great unwashed' that ultimately pay their wages through exorbitant season ticket prices and sky subscriptions.
I would say that many of the players at Torquay over the last couple of years have been top class people and are excellent representatives off the pitch as well as on it. It makes it harder when the leave in some ways, but in others, it is great to see players as hard working and nice as Bobby Olejnik and Eunan O'Kane get moves that will benefit both them and their families.
As for the book of he 97/98 season, there has been a book about the life of Justin Fashanu, which I've yet to read but will try to do so soon.
I think any candid book written by a player about a period of time at our club would be eye opening for many - but perhaps if more people would understand the fragility of their careers and that behind the BMWs and designer clothes is often a mortgage and a young family then they wouldn't be quick to play the 'disloyalty' card when they move-on....
<EDIT> I also agree with the sentiments of the piece written by Felix McHugh in the link above. I don't have any interest in the top flight clubs as such and the lifestyles of many of those that play in it - money and motors doesn't make a man. I certainly envy those that can get away to watch matches in more interesting and obscure venues than those that enjoy getting to places like Stamford Bridge and Old Trafford.
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