rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Nov 25, 2020 6:17:45 GMT
So, the people in the trial don’t know if they have been injected with the vaccine or the placebo so the theory is they carry on as normal. For the trial to work you need people to catch it, preferably those who had the placebo so actually the rise in cases after the summer was helpful although it has also been tested abroad. The process cannot be completed until a minimal number of people had caught it enabling the data to be extrapolated. I do not think the number of people affected is huge, again from the top of my head, less than a hundred.
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Post by stefano on Nov 25, 2020 14:03:48 GMT
Polio is a virus Stewart which can pass between people and in the worst cases affects the central nervous system causing debilitating physical problems. My mother had polio as a child but was one of the lucky ones. She was told she would not be able to walk by the time she was 20, but she was a nurse for 53 years (retiring aged 73) and walked ok up until her death aged 90. Lots of people have doubts about vaccines but my experience has always been fine. I had all the normal childhood ones (smallpox/polio etc) and never suffered side effects as well as not getting the illnesses. I have the annual flu jab every year with the same effect. Vaccines are not without problems and are never 100% effective. My main concern with the covid vaccine is the short time scale. It normally takes at least 10 years to produce a vaccine. That allows any long term side effects to be gauged. The short time scale of the covid vaccine makes that impossible. Hopefully there won't be any, but it is impossible to know. I shall though have the covid vaccine when it becomes available. Life itself is not without risk. I suppose I should have expected that after several months of cyber bullying of the leader of the free world you would then turn your attention to leading the TFF anti-vax campaign!  |
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Post by plainmoorpete on Nov 25, 2020 23:29:15 GMT
I suppose I should have expected that after several months of cyber bullying of the leader of the free world you would then turn your attention to leading the TFF anti-vax campaign! Please God no, don't encourage him. There is already a forum that's been turned into a mad hatters tea party by flat-earthers. |
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Post by stefano on Nov 25, 2020 23:38:46 GMT
😂 Yes Plaimoorpete quite frightening the Flat Earth Brigade over there. I was only teasing with stewart I don't think he has reached their level of madness! 😉
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Post by stewart on Nov 26, 2020 0:11:27 GMT
I suppose I should have expected that after several months of cyber bullying of the leader of the free world you would then turn your attention to leading the TFF anti-vax campaign! Please God no, don't encourage him. There is already a forum that's been turned into a mad hatters tea party by flat-earthers. I haven't the slightest intention of leading a campaign for anything. I just find some of the outpourings of our friend from the Swiss mountains so astonishing that I can't help responding, but that's only after two or three glasses of cabernet sauvignon! |
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Post by swatcat on Dec 3, 2020 5:14:25 GMT
Hello Guys - just saying Hi again as I've not posted much here since arriving. I'm Swatcat - Nakhon Ratchasima FC is my other team, in Thailand, where I am effectively stranded due to you know what! I used to post a little on Fans.com and got involved in the CV-19 thread there - I tried to balance that frankly wild and uninformed discussion bathed in ridiculous conspiracy theory and received some unpleasantness in return - when I gently stood up for myself, I was promptly excluded from the Forum - by Dave I suppose. These Guys are dangerous to their own best interests and even to the interests of our beloved TUFC  So it's back to Plainmoor now and NO thanks to the CV-19 deniers, the mask deniers and the anti-vax brigade. I'm surprised that masks will not be required in the stadium on Saturday, but I'm just saying Guys, take care. CV-19 is still here and a moreorless permanent feature of our life now - as the 'flu - but rather more deadly. TCOY (Stewart - I saw your point and think that Stefano has answered it well. ATB ) |
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Post by swatcat on Dec 3, 2020 5:20:50 GMT
The 'roll out' of the BioNTech / Pfizer vaccine is great news for the UK - an amazing achievement to produce a vaccine in less than a year, (vaccines often take 10 years to develop). We are assured by MHRA that NO corners have been cut (worth a watch if only for a few minutes). It's fun to see our EU neighbours fuming that their own roll out is still hacking through their red-tape . . The logistics in distributing the vaccine are notable but should NOT IMO be overstated, (as here in these extracts from a DT piece and widely in MSM) :-
"the Pfizer/BioNtech jab must be shipped in dry ice at -103F (-75C) and ONLY (ONLY!) lasts for five days once stored in a fridge at usual temperatures of 35.6F – 46.4 (2-8C) so it is impractical to roll it out in care home" - the caps and repeat are mine of course . . . . and
"Pfizer has said the jab can be sent to care homes, as long as the vaccine travels for no more than six hours after it leaves cold storage and is then put in a normal fridge at 2C to 8C." ONLY 5 DAYS is an AGE in terms of modern distribution capability - refrigerated packs of 975 doses can surely be sent and used in 5 days. Shake a bl**dy leg Guys - this problem can be overcome. I found this negativity appalling and this - " it is impractical to roll it out in care home" - is rubbish IMO. If Pfizer are correct with the 5 day comment then get on with it - in batches of 975. The approval of the vaccine is fantastic and a cause for real hope BUT evenso it's gonna be some months before the effects of the program will be seen in the figures which one hopes will decline, even in winter, with all these restrictions abounding. GLA |
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Post by swatcat on Dec 3, 2020 5:30:36 GMT
Sorry those quotes above are behind the DT paywall but here's the full Monty :- " Who will get it first and why? The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) initially said care home residents and staff should be first in line for the shots, followed by those aged over 80 and general health workers. However the Pfizer/BioNtech jab must be shipped in dry ice at -103F (-75C) and only lasts for five days once stored in a fridge at usual temperatures of 35.6F – 46.4 (2-8C) so it is impractical to roll it out in care homes. While the Government is insisting care homes will be targeted first, practically, that is unlikely to happen.
On December 2, Boris Johnson expanded more on how the vaccine would be implemented across care homes. He said: “Of course we want to get it into care homes as fast as we possibly can”. Though they are waiting to hear more, they are adamant that they will get it to “the most vulnerable”. However, in the response criticism that the temperature of the vaccine would make it difficult to be issued around care homes, Professor Van-Tam argued that it was “extremely unfair when one considers a new virus emerged less than 12 months ago and we now have our first vaccine”. Instead, it is expected only NHS staff will get the jab initially, and care homes may need to wait until the Oxford or Moderna vaccine is available before vaccinating residents and staff, as both can be stored at normal fridge temperatures.
NHS staff were told to get their winter flu jab by the end of November because there needs to be at least a week between the two vaccinations and NHS clinics have also been told to prepare for vaccinating their staff. Senior NHS officials claim the jab can only be transported once more after it arrives at a central hub, and has to be moved in batches of 975 – meaning the vaccine will be wasted if it is sent to smaller care homes which have only a few dozen residents.
However Pfizer has said the jab can be sent to care homes, as long as the vaccine travels for no more than six hours after it leaves cold storage and is then put in a normal fridge at 2C to 8C. So expect arguments in the coming days over who gets the first doses. At Wednesday evening’s press conference Sir Simon Stevens, the chief executive of the NHS, said care-home residents coming into hospital for outpatient appointments will still be able to access the jab." www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/02/uk-approves-pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-will-get-first/ |
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rjdgull
TFF member
Admin
Posts: 12,227
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Post by rjdgull on Dec 3, 2020 7:47:34 GMT
link - Brexit came at the wrong time for the European Medical Agency with the political imperative of moving it quick out of the UK coming at the expense of loss of key staff and efficiency due to this disruption right in the middle of a pandemic. A lot of things can be done better on a pan European basis and we will continue to work with our friends in Europe but to suggest it is always better to undertake projects as part of this bureaucracy is false. Much criticism was made of the UK government earlier this year in withdrawing from the European vaccine collaboration but actually looks like this was the right decision that could end up saving many lives and re-opening the economy faster.
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Post by swatcat on Dec 3, 2020 8:51:46 GMT
RJD - a good point about the EMA moving - perhaps the 27 should take our word for it and roll the vaccine out themselves without further ado ? |
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Post by swatcat on Dec 4, 2020 1:41:50 GMT
ON ANOTHER FORUM - I THOUGHT THIS WAS A GREAT REPLY TO AN ANTI-VAXXER :-
" . . obvious nonsense. Vaccines aren't a matter of 'personal choice' they're a matter of collective responsibility.
The problem that you and your friends refuse to recognise is that your actions (or inactions in this case) affect not just yourself but also those around you. And that includes not only your grannies and grandads, but everybody else's too.
Carry on looking after number one, but don't pretend that it's in any way a principled stand about personal choice, because it isn't. It's pure self-interest - you think you'll get away with it, and couldn't care less about the consequences for others.
Everybody should certainly listen to medical advice. What's the alternative? Listen to a load of clueless fuckwits on the net?"
Bl**dy excellent post IMO. My rejoinder "do you get it now ? When you exercise your rights and 'freedom', NOT to have the vaccine, you jeopardise other's rights and 'freedom' i.e. to be as Covid free as is possible. Collective responsibility - hallelujah!"
As Freddie said in, 'I'm going slightly mad' - 'and there you have it'.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2020 9:19:51 GMT
Welcome to City 17, get over there in that line, and wait until you’re told to do something or take something!
I really am going to track down a Shaking Head Smiley!
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Post by swatcat on Dec 17, 2020 5:31:32 GMT
Vaccines, the 2nd Generation, may arrive before the 1st Generation have cracked it - '2G' gives longer lasting T-cell immunity. An overshadowing fact is we don't yet know in practice, how long the immunity from '1G' vaccinations will last. Here's something I copied from a chatroom about some 2nd Gen discussions :- "Main contributors were Sally Adams of Scancell, Daniel Smith of Cobra (the company chosen to manufacture Covidity) and Matti Salberg of Karolinska. All agreed that a big problem is manufacture and keeping billions of people immunised and that 2nd gen vaccines have to bring something extra over and above those of the 1st generation. Sally explained exactly what that extra is in the case of Covidity. She emphasied a) the extra avidity provided by Avidimab, b) the targeting of the N protein, c) Immune memory. Daniel Smith emphasised the ease of producing DNA vaccines when compared to other types. It would be difficult to prove 2nd gen vaccines on the older population since most will have been vaccinated already. Interesting that Matti's view was that it was more important to prove it works on younger people since they are more likely to spread the virus." ************************ MOVING ON - a long way to go and timescales are such that a '2G' might well be in time to play a part . . . . from the DT today, the nub of concerns :- ". . . here’s a shuddering thought. Perhaps this Christmas fiasco is not merely a shambolic end to a shambolic year but a lurid presage to 2021. The Government doesn’t dare admit it, but despite the arrival of a vaccine, we are nowhere near over the hump. The more astute will have noticed that the PM has been reluctant to confirm or deny that restrictions will end once the vulnerable are vaccinated. The bad news ministers don’t trust you enough to tell you is that inoculating at-risk groups by spring is not necessarily a ticket to freedom. This is a baseless public and media assumption, supported in theory by a tiny and marginalised group of lockdown-heretic professors. In fact, if the scientific mainstream gets its way, lockdowns may have to continue until we reach Zero Covid. To many sceptics, this will sound like the deranged absolutism of academics who must surely now be put back into their box by our democratically elected leaders. But many will find the argument of leading experts – including Sage advisers – compelling. They reason that, if we don’t aim for near total elimination of Covid, there is a higher risk that the virus will become endemic. As with flu, tens of thousands will die every year, at a cost of tens of billions to the economy in sick days and healthcare. Saddled with a new seasonal disease, the public might well turn on the Tories at the next election. By extension of this logic, lockdowns would have to remain in place as our only weapon to drive down cases until almost the entire population is vaccinated, which may take until late 2021." www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/12/16/covid-christmas-shambles-foreshadows-divisive-despotism-come/ |
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Post by swatcat on Dec 29, 2020 1:04:46 GMT
A report from Denver about the 'effects' found so far, of the BioNTech/Pfizer and the Moderna vaccines. Comparison with the Oxford/AZ experience will be interesting. Some won't want to read the last haunting para which nevertheless is food for thought for the anti-vax brigade. "Pfizer, the company that makes the one she (Wilson) received, reported that some 13% of recipients ages 18 to 55 had a bad headache after the first dose. About 16% of those who received the other vaccine, made by Moderna, in a late-stage trial had a reaction strong enough to prevent them from going about their daily routine" . . . . . . "The side effects dissipate within a few days, and they are a signal, the experts say, that the vaccine is working" . . . . . . "Forty-eight hours after Wilson’s post-vaccine headache sent her to bed, she returned to her job in the emergency room at a hospital. Like many hospitals around the nation, its intensive care unit was crowded with COVID cases. On one recent shift, Wilson said, there were 12 patients in the critical care bay and only one bed available in the ICU to take them. “These are people having strokes, myocardial infarction that need catheterization,” she recalled. “You have to understand the reality.” That time, Wilson said, it wasn’t a vaccine side effect that made her feel as if she was going to throw up." www.denverpost.com/2020/12/28/covid-vaccine-side-effects-feel-like-those-who-got-the-shot |
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Post by plainmoorpete on Dec 29, 2020 9:59:43 GMT
Hi Swatcat. Thanks for posting on here, it makes a change to read responsible and informed posts about the virus rather than the crap that has infected the kiddies site, which I have quit after receiving some pretty vile abuse for the umpteenth time from a particular poster after challenging his posts on the subject.
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