Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 18, 2008 21:52:20 GMT
Absolutely awful...utterly abject. Why does PB think that Hargreaves is a good fit in defense? Why buy all these midfielders when there's not the space for them in the squad? It seems to me that we have bought players for the sake of it, and are just trying to fit them in for the sake of it and completely shafting the balance of the side. People booing doesn't help, but can you really blame them? Standing in the driving rain and howling wind to watch that tripe? (Has anyone else noticed that the current crop of "Rose tinters" are those who criticised those who were rose-tinted about the Batseon regime??!!) No you can't blame them and while I hate to hear it on the TV , as I said to Merse If people pay to watch that, you can't expect them to clap the team off. Lets hope it hurts those players to hear their own fans boo them off, If it does not hurt them and make them want to try and get things right, then I would ask, should they be at the club. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 18, 2008 21:55:01 GMT
Nice to see a few extra posts tonight hey Dave!!! Just to add to my last post Bedeau Hilly and Hockley would proabably been more effective than that lot tonight!!! Posts makes old Dave R very happy ;D ;D |
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Post by capitalgull on Aug 18, 2008 21:56:16 GMT
I don't think there is a hope in hell he will make multiple changes to be honest and with Todd hurt, I can see Hargreaves again being put in the back four.
IF it were me, I'd go for something a bit different with... (if all players were fit)
Poke
Mansell
Nicholson
Todd
Ellis
Carlisle
Hargreaves
Wroe
Carayol
Dsane
Sills
4-3-3 or 4-5-1 depending on how you look at it. Hargreaves as the anchor in midfield with Carlisle and Wroe given the chance to roam and create, and Carayol and Dsane on either side of Sills. Seemed to me we coped for much of last season without a natural left-sided centre-back, so why we have to experiment with Hargreaves there this season just because of that is beyond me.
I guess that's what Buckle gets paid for...but he wasn't worth his money tonight and neither were the players he sent out there.
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Post by chesneygull on Aug 18, 2008 22:00:22 GMT
I'm trying to think of any positives to mention about tonight's game. Have to say that I am struggling..............the game was poor and won by the better side who, as their manager repeated on several occasions, played the conditions better. Fully deserved win for Ebbsfleet against a very poor Torquay side.
Like most others on this site I cannot see why Hargreaves is playing at CB. We miss his bite in midfield and, as the second goal shows, he is not a CB and lacks pace. Need to bring Woods back ASAP unless of course something is going on behind the scenes that we're unaware of?? Hargreaves back to CM and we must give the ball more to Carlisle. He played some very thoughtful through balls and I believe is the key to us playing well. We all know what he is capable of but he cannot do it without the ball. It was a shame to see yet more long ball stuff particularly in the second half. Surely we needed to use a bit more noddle!
The next few games are going to be very important for the Gulls. Hopefully Todd will be fit!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 18, 2008 22:01:05 GMT
I think that has to be worth trying Andy, we really need to hope Buckle himself will now put is hand up and say that the Hargreaves experiment has not worked, I say bring back Woods, he looked the best defender in the pre season games.
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Post by gullfc on Aug 18, 2008 22:11:31 GMT
I think that has to be worth trying Andy, we really need to hope Buckle himself will now put is hand up and say that the Hargreaves experiment has not worked, I say bring back Woods, he looked the best defender in the pre season games. Unfortunately I fear that Buckle is not capable of admitting that one of his experiments has not worked. Ignorance can be forgiven (if you are willing to learn) but arrogance can cost promotion (and your job) if you cannot change. |
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Post by mickyflash on Aug 18, 2008 22:12:12 GMT
We do not have a divine right to win this league, and yes we are a small club, but as fans who pay good money to see the club perform, we deserve to see players play with at least a little bit of passion.
I can understand an accept losing in this tough division, there are some so called supporters who will boo at every point dropped this season, thats just the way football is these days, I do not agree with it but I have accepted it. Tonight was more than that. Tonight was just effortless.
Please don't pass off any fan who is angry at tonights performance as some 'Man Utd fan' hungry for success with no idea about the game, Most of us on here have played te game and/or watched Torquay for years and and have seen a poor performance or too in our time. I find that just patronising
Every game I have seen this season we look like conceeding goals. Thats just fact. Argue with me if you like but we have not kept a clean sheet yet this season. Todd has been trying to patch together a weak back 4 and without him there in the second half we looked like a pub team playing on New Years day.
Hargreaves has been playing out of position and while he has not played as bad as some make out he his not a center half, you can see he still has a football brain but he just looks like a player playing out of position, and guess what? now we miss him in their middle of the park!
Wroe was invisible tonight, we didn't win a second ball all night long. I counted the number of consecutive passes to feet we made all night, my highest number? 4, followed by a hoof by Mansell that went out of play. Thompson wasn't much better than Wroe, he needs to come looking for the ball more and be an option, they are too similar players to be playing together and he seems to be ball watching constantly, to me he looks like a winger playing out of position, now I like him, I really do, I think hes a good player, but I cant help but think if he had Hargreaves next to him, helping him, we would be so much more solid in the middle of the park.
Sills got a lot of stick tonight, but you cant really blame him, balls were just played up in the air aimlessly, when it landed on a opposition head the fans got frustrated, when it landed on sills head Benyon was not strong enough to do anything with it.
Stevens shouldn't of started, whats the point of having this depth in the squad if your not going to look at the opposition and pick the side to beat them. We have not performed yet this season, and yet the starting 11 has not changed? Its almost as if, after the working game, Buckle picked this side on pride trying to prove he was right.
Now I'm not going to get carried away, Buckle is our manager and long may that continue but sometimes the only way forward is to come out hold your hands up admit you got it wrong and re-group, he needs to take the pressure off the lads even if it means he faces a bit more. Buckle said in pre-season that we need to be able to mix our game up, yet the only instructions I have seen him give when we have been under the cosh is the familiar long ball signal, performances like tonight do happen, but you cat just dismiss them, any decent team will learn from displays like this and make changes accordingly and it is time to change the team up little, I feel this will give us a freshness about our play and put our early performances to bed, as fans we do need to be patient and go to the next game ready to support, but there needs to be a balance, and the team need to lift the supporters too
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 18, 2008 22:17:30 GMT
mickyflash what a fantastic post young man and I have to say I could not have put those points as well as you have done. I also fully agree with every word.
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Post by gullfc on Aug 18, 2008 22:21:38 GMT
Great post mickeyflash. I seem to sense a theme that buckle needs to step up to the plate, admit he is wrong and move on.
Can Mr B admit that his experiments are wrong? or will his pride lead to a big fall?
I hope the first one
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Dave
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Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Aug 18, 2008 22:23:17 GMT
I think that has to be worth trying Andy, we really need to hope Buckle himself will now put is hand up and say that the Hargreaves experiment has not worked, I say bring back Woods, he looked the best defender in the pre season games. Unfortunately I fear that Buckle is not capable of admitting that one of his experiments has not worked. Ignorance can be forgiven (if you are willing to learn) but arrogance can cost promotion (and your job) if you cannot change. Maybe he won't, but there are those at the club who will want to make him  Sean stated on here that the board is 100% behind buckle, I'm sure they are, but they want success, they want to see the club back in the football league and If things did not improve, I know they would take action. |
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Post by gullfc on Aug 18, 2008 22:30:39 GMT
Unfortunately I fear that Buckle is not capable of admitting that one of his experiments has not worked. Ignorance can be forgiven (if you are willing to learn) but arrogance can cost promotion (and your job) if you cannot change. Maybe he won't, but there are those at the club who will want to make him Sean stated on here that the board is 100% behind buckle, I'm sure they are, but they want success, they want to see the club back in the football league and If things did not improve, I know they would take action. Its got to be promotion or bust for Buckle this season. The question is, how any poor performances can we cope with this season before our promotion chances are seriously compromised? |
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Post by tufcwewillbeback on Aug 18, 2008 22:33:36 GMT
Hargreaves and Poke made a right hash of things for the 2nd goal but on general performance I was least impressed with Wroe and Thompson.
Niether of them showed any composure or control on the ball, neither passed the ball, neither coped with the game or looked fit enough to make any impact. If there is one position that it is crucial to have a couple of players who play well it is in the centre of the park. Afew years ago it was Russell that ran games for us and last year it was Hargreaves. Bucks has to put Hargreaves back in the midfield and, on the basis of tonights performance, I would play him with Adams. While, Adams has afew weaknesses, he does at least posses the ability to distribute the ball well which, to be fair, Thompson showed in pre season but he was absent tonight.
Poke's distribution was poor but, other than one long range effort from Benyon, he had our only shot on target as he kicked the ball 50 yards to far!!!!!!!!!!
The match sponsers were clearly scraping the barrell, after a dyer team performance, awarding Mansell Man of the Match.
Personnally, I think, of the players that started, only Benyon can escape blame tonight as he had absolutley no service from a non existent midfield.
Apart from the obvious howler for the 2nd goal, I though Hargreaves did reasonably well at centre back but needs to play in the midfield because the others are not close to being as good as him.
I thought the chants of "get Buckle out" and "Bring back Leroy" were pretty dispicable though. Some of the people in the pop have very short memories and are unbelivabley fickle.
Some of Poke's goalkeeping tonight was no better than what we had come to expect from Rice last season so I really hope he pulls himself together. The last thing we need is for him to lose confidence.
What disapoints me the most is that Ebbsfleet were not very good tonight. We were just so poor that we gifted the game to them.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 18, 2008 22:44:24 GMT
Thanks for your views tufcwewillbeback, I only watched the second half and did not notice Poke having to bad of a game, do you think Adams would be the best to partner Hargreaves in the middle? I think Thompson would be the best one and I would hope he would play the holding role so Hargreaves could support the front two, when needed.
Do we really think Hargreaves will have the legs now, that is my big question over him, after watching tonights game you have to ask, just what do they do in training.
Calling Buckle out is not what is needed, like gulfc has said, he just needs to admit he has got things wrong, get players playing in their best positions and start will the best eleven, not his chosen few.
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Post by mickyflash on Aug 18, 2008 22:52:07 GMT
I dd not hear any Buckle out chants and believe there was a little bit of irony in the Leroy chants, as the game was on sentanta.
Rather than wanting Leroy himself back, I believe the fans were calling for the style of play we played under him. and the chat was a way of making that point, not that I joined in of course!
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Post by crooky on Aug 18, 2008 23:01:07 GMT
Watched the game on Setanta. What worries me, as it it did last season, is that we have absolutely nobody who seems to have an ounce of composure about them. Once again I fear we are heading towards last season's dreaded hoofball. Nicholson in particular done my head in. How many times did he launch a 40 yard hoof to the opposition when he had ample time to look up and assess what else was on around him? The wingers were once again non existent, and don't even let me get started on that uncreative central midfield partnership.
Feel better now i've got that out my system!!
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