Dave
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Post by Dave on Jun 27, 2009 9:11:22 GMT
I quoted Jims remark only because he was implying the reaction of the local people against the travellers was it was happening in Devon, or Torbay to be more correct in this case.
I grow tired in life that people want to keep using words like racist, or bigots, just because they have views that in so many cases are the views shared by most of the people of the UK.
Its fine to be different, no sensible person will ever have a problem with that, its when those who are different fail to accept the laws of our land, want rules to be made just for them.
The fact is no matter where travellers like these go to, they are always unwelcome and for all the reasons I have given, for Jim to try and make up its only a problem here due to the people who live here, is nonsense.
I take the view if people move here and don't like the way the people who live here are, then feel free to move back to where you came from.
If you don't like seagulls then move further in land, if you don't like church bells then don't move into a village, if you don't like how where you live has changed then move to a place that suits you better.
I for one want to see a proper camp set up for travellers to use, but would that be the end of the problem? somehow I don't think it will be and the law needs to be changed to allow the police to be able to move on all those who are breaking the law by being on illegal sites.
You get moved on these days if you dare to stand up and protest about anything, even doing it in a legal and peaceful way, time that action was taken to ensure all those who live within the law have the right to expect not to have travellers parked on their doorstep.
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merse
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Post by merse on Jun 27, 2009 10:25:15 GMT
 It's a basic human right to live a "travelling lifestyle" regardless of mode of transport or ethnicity. Just because someone isn't of Roma ethnicity or doesn't use a horse and caravan doesn't preclude them from adopting a "travelling lifestyle". If Torbay in this day and age has not bothered to provide the legally required facilities for Travellers then it is THEY who are breaking the law before anyone else. As the police say "travellers won't stop travelling".By failing in it's statutory duty, Torbay is inviting the problem as much as it would invite peeing in the street were there no public conveniences. Yes, SOME travellers make and leave a mess, but the vast majority of Official Travellers' Sites I have ever seen are immaculately kept and clean, and I have personally witnessed unofficial travellers' resting places being taken advantage of by nearby residents to dump their own garden and household waste and thus hypocritically point the finger of blame. There are many official sites in North and East London and I have both worked and lived adjacent to such sites in the past without once personally encountering any conflict whatsoever. People will argue until the cows come home, but this "if you don't like it; don't come/ go back to where you came from" rubbish does not wash in this day and age, is prejudiced and bigoted. Not an attitude to be tolerated nor one to be proud of in my opinion.
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Post by jimd on Jun 27, 2009 11:52:16 GMT
Spot on Merse.
You might think my views are nonsense Dave but then again you sure write some crap yourself.
Children might see them.....so what if they do? What will happen to the poor little children who happen to see the nasty travellers?
Nothing will happen.
They will not be damaged or hurt in any way by seeing some people living in caravans.
Try thinking before you condem.
So exactly what have these travellers done?
I have heard no reports of houses being broken into or locals being terrorised...have you?
All I have heard is a mess being left at clennon valley. If that is true then yes, that is wrong, just like it is wrong for local people to fly tip or leave a mess where they like.
And yes locals do leave a mess.
If Devon got its arse into gear and provided the sites that they are legally required to provide then we wouldn't even be having this arguement.
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Post by aussie on Jun 27, 2009 13:30:36 GMT
Tree hugging bolderdash, but thats just MY OPINION, one I`m entitled to by the way! If you want to opt out of society buy a bloody island and do what you want, if you want your own lifestyle then don`t inflict the side effects on to others, in other words have some sort of respect for people around you or go somewhere that doesn`t p1ss people off, it`s called common sense not bigotry! I`m not saying society is perfect and can understand why some people like the Traveller ideal, but too live off society and it`s parks and open spaces and not put in to help society or pay for what you have is akin to a parisite!
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AR10
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Post by AR10 on Jun 27, 2009 14:18:20 GMT
Why can these travelers not go & use our many caravan parks that are in the bay & south Devon? I tell you why because they will have to pay for them!! It takes the p1ss out of all the decent tax payers in the UK who come down to the bay on caravan holidays & pay to use these facilities. I'm sure the campsites wouldn't turn away the travelers. So why has our local tax money got to be spent on providing a site for theses trawlers to use? Will we as a local government be charging them rent when it is up a running?
I was playing 7 aside down clennon valley the other night & these travelers was driving their 4x4's all over the football pitches at the top end, far away from their caravans so they didn't even have the need to be up the top. A local dog walker started taking pictures & was started upon & threatened violence as they tried to take his camera off him, had it not been for us finishing playing & going to his rescue then I would not like to think what would of happened to him.
Travelers you are more than welcome to the bay but go & use campsites to set up home for 2 weeks.
Have you seen all the brand new cars they drive & the transit vans they use sign written with their business name on them? I bet none are paying tax on what they earn & yes they are ripping off local oap's to fix roofs that don't need fixing.
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Jun 27, 2009 15:14:02 GMT
So exactly what have these travellers done? Trespassing? |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jun 27, 2009 15:23:00 GMT
People will argue until the cows come home, but this "if you don't like it; don't come/ go back to where you came from" rubbish does not wash in this day and age, is prejudiced and bigoted. Not an attitude to be tolerated nor one to be proud of in my opinion. Firstly thanks for the excellent points you made Ant re caravan parks that we already have here in Torbay, still I'm sure the defenders will come out with even more crap and look to put blame on the decent hard working and tax paying local people who pay their way properly in this world. Merse I'm very proud and with good reason, I can hold my head up very high in this world, I have worked hard all my life, lived a very decent and honest life, spent my life helping other people and have never committed one single crime. I treat all I meet in the correct and proper way and I have nothing to ever feel ashamed about. I stand by what I said and that is if you don't like living with Devon people than move back to where you came from or anywhere else for that matter. On the whole the people of Devon are good well meaning people, but that can be said for so many people in the UK, but If I moved to London and did not like London people, then I would move, I would not stay and spend my life slagging them off. Like it or not the view of most people is this country has gone PC mad, I don't even know what term is right half the time to use because get it wrong and I'll be called a racist or a bigot. The human rights act is now a joke that no longer favours the decent honest and law abiding people, the whole country has in my view lost its way. British proud and for good reason, but when I look around me I wonder if I have been the fool upholding values and principles in order to play my part as a decent member of the human race, seems its best to just abuse the whole system, put two fingers up to everyone else, because strangely you will still get people supporting you, the world really has gone mad. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jun 27, 2009 16:18:20 GMT
I have just taken a walk around the block, mainly as I wanted to check my garage where I keep my car as its some distance from my home and closer to the park.
Generators and load music playing, no not really a crime as such, but the padlock was still locked closed on the chain that was cut so the gate could be opened.
I also called at the home of our local councilor and discovered the park was sealed off over six months ago, I got it wrong about the park, Nick Bye sold the local park used by the local children to a property developer, but as is the case now here in Torbay, we foolish gave away democracy as we tried to really make a difference.
We got for our efforts a system where one man can do what ever he wants, I wonder how much the developer has had to pay for his section 106 money, but you can bet it won't be spent on any worthwhile improvements so badly needed in the Bay, I bet the boss of stagecoach is already looking at the cataloge for his next new and free bus the council will want to buy him.
Maybe we should just have more heart, I mean it was only a good and safe park for the children to play in, letting these poor weary travellers use it must surely be making better use of it.
Bye well may have to act sooner than he wants, as the developer was due to move onto the land on Monday, I know Bye see if mums happy to have them back outside her house, I mean we all need to be prepared to share in this world.
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Jun 27, 2009 19:13:52 GMT
Generators and load music playing, no not really a crime as such, but the padlock was still locked closed on the chain that was cut so the gate could be opened. Dave, surely the act of cutting the chain some law must have been committed. Inspector Gadget mentioned something along the lines that they would uphold the law. Perhaps we should try something similar and see what happens. |
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Post by stuartB on Jun 27, 2009 21:10:00 GMT
perhaps a site should be found for this lot to come and holiday every year, they are entitled to a holiday like us. so either pay up like the rest of us or perhaps Jim would like to give up some of that large space that his elephants and giraffes enjoy. I'm sure the animals would enjoy the company but may object to the travellers behaviour.
strange that they get their own doctor to visit them, their on social services representative and the dole come to them to give them their benefits. Have you tried calling a doctor out these days?
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jun 27, 2009 22:23:24 GMT
Generators and load music playing, no not really a crime as such, but the padlock was still locked closed on the chain that was cut so the gate could be opened. Dave, surely the act of cutting the chain some law must have been committed. Inspector Gadget mentioned something along the lines that they would uphold the law. Perhaps we should try something similar and see what happens. If the police meant what they said about up holding the law, they would have been removed off the site as soon as the police knew they were there. Its just rubbish they spout out, how different to when some young people join in a protest, one that might just disrupted a little those who are trying to get on with their work  young girls just sitting on the road, but the police will have no problems dragging them along the floor and then slapping the cuffs on. When it comes to dealing with travellers they stand back and do nothing, I bet if I was to walk up to the park and cause a disturbance up there, I would be in the cells for the night. Third night we sleep with the windows closed, well it won't be so bad tonight as we have bought a new fan to keep us cool. |
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Post by jimd on Jun 28, 2009 6:17:46 GMT
and so the witch hunt continues.
It seems that there biggest crime to date is cutting a padlock off a gate.
Thats got to be worth a public burning at least.
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Jun 28, 2009 8:22:55 GMT
It seems that there biggest crime to date is cutting a padlock off a gate. But it wasn't the biggest crime was it - surely the biggest crime is Trespass. IMO they don't help themselves by not trying to blend into the community. There is a large 'overflow' carpark which I believe services Goodrington Beach and the Splash World Park (the other side of the main road to Clennon Valley). This time of the year I would imagine the car park to b e reasonably quiet - why not set up camp there? They could also contact one of the local skip firms and arrange (and pay) for some rubbish skips to be delivered and when they finish their 'holiday' they could either clean up the crap they have left or pay the Council to do it. I am subject to the laws of the land, so should the Travellers. So should EVERYONE. Jim, there is no witch hunt on my part. I just want to get my head round why they can do what they do. |
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Post by aussie on Jun 28, 2009 8:51:07 GMT
They can do what they want to do because of the liberal left mentality that spread like a disease through out society and government, the human rights act `stick` has been bent so far the wrong way that it has proverbly snapped, and it`s sycophantic sandle growers and yoghurt knitters that the government and lefties pander to! Wooly thinking is sinking this country and many others! Jim this is not a dig at you, it`s just how I think.
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Post by jimd on Jun 28, 2009 12:16:26 GMT
You are right Phil
They should clean up after themselves and a lot of them do. Take a look at some of the official traveler sites......you will find some of them well kept.
It isn't just travelers who leave a mess though is it...lots of householders believe themselves to be above the law and will fly tip anywhere that they see fit...this is also wrong.
When I read such inane comments as "they are parked near a school" then my blood boils. It is totally ridiculous to suggest that children are in danger because some people are camped near to their school. What on earth is likely to happen?
Is it being suggested that these travelers steal kids or something. Just what will they do to our kids?
I would love to know exactly what the fear is that these people will do to our kids and what that fear is based upon. Maybe Dave who brought up the "issue" will be able to explain.
As for them integrating more, yes, i agree but with the mass hatred and hysteria that they encounter then they are hardly likely to want to mix with us ..are they?
I am not some woolie leftie or sycophantic sandal grower and yogurt knitter as aussie would believe. I just feel that everyone as individuals should be given a chance and not condemned because they dont live as we do.
Some travelers are scum, some are decent people. Some householders are scum, some are decent people.
Live and let live.
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young girls just sitting on the road, but the police will have no problems dragging them along the floor and then slapping the cuffs on.