A Traveller Who Is A Joy To See

Sorry aussie

I guess this argument has frayed a few nerves.........bring on the footy so we can go back to arguing about PB's skills as a manager.

Not a witch hunt Jimd and its very clear to see due to your very weak arguments in defence of the travellers who are in Paignton, that you have simply failed to not only look at the whole picture, but failed to see and listen to what are real and genuine concerns.

We should all be free to live as we choose within reason in what is meant to be a free country, what upsets so many people is travellers only take and fail to pay in to the pot like all the rest of the population are expected too.

They also fail to live and abide with the laws of our country, they put their fingers up to most and use the human rights act to hide behind. Yes breaking a chain to get access to a field is not the crime of the century, but its more than that as you know, they are trespassing driving into that field and setting up camp.

They are also sadly taking the mickey, a court order was sought to remove them from Gampton Common, but it was agreed to let them use the service lane at Clennon Valley for a while. Then the second wave who must have been informed by the first one, moves on to the football fields at Clennon.

A second court order had to be got and when it was the council did not send in the bailiffs, they gave the travellers one more whole week to move out on their own free will. When they did not the bailiffs were sent in, only for them to move up near me, break open the gate and set up camp there.

I do not have any idea how much it has all cost so far, but as Ant pointed out we have plenty of caravan camps that people go and stay on, only you do have to pay and your argument about fly tipping was in my view also very weak.

I spoke with a lady yesterday who lives at Clennon, on Friday morning she counted four full skips filled to the top. The thing is this is not rubbish that has been generated by a group of people just living in a caravan.

No, most is garden waste, the men leave the camp in the morning and try and find work to do, this will often be cutting down bushes and trees etc. They get paid in cash and return to the camp and just dump the rubbish behind the caravans.

We have a tip in Paignton open seven days a week, six are for cars to use it and one day a week its just for vans, but trade waste I believe can be taken there ever day, but a charge is made.

You say locals fly tip? Maybe some do but not as many as once did due to the tip being open all the hours it is these days. When you do read about any fly tipping in the paper, it was often a company who were responsible and the result is always a very heavy fine being made.

Trust me Jim if you get caught fly tipping you will go to court and you will get fined, can you give me one good reason that the travellers after earning money to cut somebody’s bushes down, can’t then go and dispose of the rubbish in a proper manner?

The thing is their attitude is just to dump it back at the camp and let someone else clear it up and at great expense to the local councils, who have to use money that you have had to pay them Jim, can you really tell me you are happy you tax has to be wasted on such things, when there are far better things the money could be spent on.

While I feel having a proper camp for them will help the problem, it will not solve it, Plymouth have given the go ahead for a new travellers camp. Only it will be for ten caravans only. We had 19 on Clennon and the police will still be powerless to move them on from places like Clennon, if ours was that small and filled up.

Anyway why should down to the tax players to provide them with sites, if we should have to they should be charged for using them, after all they all seem to be well off, just looking at the cars and 4x4’s up the road from me indicates they have more money in their pockets than I do.

You also said no houses were broken into near me, well that is true, but I did a google search this morning and read many stories of intimidation and even violence from some travellers, its no wonder people are worried about them. Yes it may well only be a few and most might be the nicest people you will ever meet, but how would you know what type just set up camp by your home.

Walking past the gate yesterday I knew I felt like I would not want to walk into the camp that’s for sure, they may have said pull up a chair and said sit down and have a drink, but sorry don’t think I would want to take the chance, would you Jim?

There is a feeling off uneasiness around where I live Jim, the point is this has only been caused by a group of people who are breaking the law and rightly or wrongly people are fearful having then so close.

As has been said on this thread, much of the views people have of travellers have been caused by the action and behaviour of the traveller, maybe its time they made an effort to try and help everyone else understand and trust then a bit better, to do so they firstly need to start living by the laws everyone else has too.

more very weak arguments from you Dave.

Lots of words, no substance again.

No proof of any wrong doing just hearsay and rumour as usual.

I notice on the MJ thread you defend him to the hilt and rightly so....yet here you are more than willing to condem people who have done you no harm, with no proof that they have done others any harm.

Double standards?

One is an idol of yours the others are people you despise.

I will be more than happy to move on from discussing this subject with you Jim, but sorry I do need to reply to this post you made.

Double standards? are you having a laugh Jim? Jackson is not an idol of mine, I don't believe I have any Idols at all as such. There are many who have talent, or have done something really special that I will admire but thats as far it would go.

I think my last post on the Jackson thread should go some way to explaining why I felt the need to say to some who posted that without knowing all the facts, they really should not be making such judgments or putting down in writing such remarks as the ones Dave Shaw did.

I also do not despise anyone, never have and never will, but I will condemn those who break the law and show no regard for others in their life's.

You have failed to respond to all the good arguments I put in my post above yours, not made because I despise travellers, but because all I said in that post was true and very factual.

You have not come up with one argument than can defend anything I have put in my posts, instead you have just defected things by calling me a bigot and now your latest that I suffer from Double standards?

I hate to use the zoo as you work there Jim, but if animal rights people broke into the zoo and let some animals go I wonder what you would think about their actions, would they have broken the law?

You see they and their defenders would claim they had done nothing wrong, just let animals have their freedom back as they had been caged against their own will.

The people with common sense would say they acted in a criminal and irresponsible way, as we know the animals are well cared for and they would probably be unable to live without the keepers care, finding food being just one problem.

At the end of the day the travellers are acting in an illegal manner, that can't be argued, all you have just tried to do in your arguments is say such things as locals dump rubbish as well. Maybe but two wrongs will never make a right and I can assure you 99% of the people who live in Torbay will be glad when they move out of the bay.

Jim please quote one crime I have said they committed please, all that I have posted has happened you can read all I have said in the Herald Express, I have added nothing.

PS don't want them destroyed Jim, just moved on

and only because you are are unable to find one thing I have posted on this thread that is not true, as I said I have made nothing up all can be read in the local papers, even the views of the residents of Torbay, not sure I read one reply on the HE site that supported the travellers, never mind Jim now you know how they feel being in the minority

Seems to me that this thread has got completely out of hand.

Am I to believe that JimD's profile showing him as a "guest" means that he has either:

(a)Cancelled his member status, or,
(b)Been excluded from the site ?

What a shame that a member (who not so long ago was in charge of the calendar section) has befallen this fate.

I'm not taking sides for one moment, but........I don't know...........sometimes, you girls just WON'T back down - and accept others might have differing opinions to your own.

If only to keep the peace!!