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Post by awayday on Sept 7, 2010 9:41:32 GMT
You lot are all happy to moan about the swearing etc, but then you feel the need to come on here and throw insults such as Retards, Idiots and Animals. You are just as pathetic.
I work with children with mental health issues and I am sorry the word "Retard" is up there with "Paki" or "Niger", they should not be used.
I am not here to debate on swearing, if anything I am known to shout the odd abusive word myself, however I am thinking of taking my young daughter to her first game soon, and fully appreciate why most of you would want a swear free ground. If anything I would probably start to encourage it myself from the back of the terrace.
Most of these guys earn little money, but spend it all on following Torquay. They are there week in week out, most of them were there during the good old days of midweek games in the rain at Grays or the rubbish tip of Ebbsfleet. I am not saying their language is always suitable, but their dedication to follow their team does not deserve the sort of abuse you lot are throwing at them. Yes they are fans and don't you guys forget it, they buy their merchandise and season tickets and keep Torquay going financially, probably more than most of the fair weather fans that post on forums.
What most of you seem to forget (I am not debating it is right or wrong) the abuse thrown at the football pundit was mainly during half time, and for the remainder of the 90 minutes they were all (the guys at the back of the terrace) fully behind the team and singing their hearts out to try and get a result out of the trip. It was nice to see that for the last 10 minutes every single fan that day sang, the team must have picked up on that. Rather than coming on here and moaning, why not come on here and say “Well done, they sang their hearts out for most of the game, shame they had to spoil it for 10 minutes in the middle”?
Yes there is a mixture of ages with us who stand at the back of the terrace, myself coming to my late 30's and there are people older and younger than me. Someone on here mentioned they were threatened by us............... when was the last time Torquay had an arrest during a game, or had trouble outside the grounds? Most of us wouldn't dream of violence, in fact most of them would run if anything was ever to kick off. I cannot even remember the last time someone got removed from a ground.
Sorry for the long post, but you guys are use to lengthy speeches. I just want to finish by saying yes sometimes they are embarrassing, but they are not an embarrassment to the club, yes they sometimes over step the mark with the chants but it doesn’t mean they are ill educated or animals, yes they come across as threatening, but if you actually met them in the bar before the game they would shake your hand and chat with you, but again they are Fans!!!
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Post by dantufc on Sept 7, 2010 10:32:57 GMT
Being “a loyal fan” is not an excuse for the behaviour of those fans on Saturday. The abuse they gave to John Salako was completely disproportionate to the “crime” he committed, however ill-researched people may consider his opinions to be.
After I told them to shut up because they were embarrassing a couple of times I was told to “sit down shut up” asked “where were you when we were sh*t” (it appears their only form of communication is by chant) and a fair bit of other abuse myself. The idea that anyone who disagrees with their purile abuse isn’t loyal is absolutely ridiculous. I, like the majority of supporters on this forum, am a long term fan who was at Grays, and Ebbsfleet and any number of less desirable fixtures over the years.
I love to get involved with the (supportive) singing at away games, and there used to be a fair bit of witty, anti-opposition singing which I have absolutely no problem with. I also have no problem with swearing in moderation, but the use of the C word on it’s own definitely does not fall into that category.
I do agree with your point about some of the terms people have used to describe the group on here, but I believe this is a result of people becoming tired of and embarrassed to be associated with them. I’ll be going to Stevenage next week and if the same rubbish happens I’ll speak up again, it would be great if more people could do the same.
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Sept 7, 2010 11:33:11 GMT
You lot are all happy to moan about the swearing etc, but then you feel the need to come on here and throw insults such as Retards, Idiots and Animals. You are just as pathetic.I work with children with mental health issues and I am sorry the word "Retard" is up there with "Paki" or "Niger", they should not be used. I'm am sorry awayday but I think you are over reacting to the majority of posts that have been written on this issue. One member used the term retard as a quote from a private conversation whilst stressing that he would not use this word. One other member used the term animal. Idiot was used on many occasions but if certain fans act like one then what do you expect? Frankly, the vast majority of fans find elements of this behaviour both embarrassing and unacceptable and I hope that this majority do join with Dan in making a stand. Just because fans spend their money doesn't give them the right to do what they please in public. Like you hope to do, I do bring young children to football and while swearing is very much part of the environment there are limits!!!!!! In the long term the club needs to attract children to the game as they are the future revenue base and if they end up not coming because of a certain minority then that element will in the long term make the club a net loss.  |
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 7, 2010 11:46:39 GMT
Having just watched the FL piece again (paying particular attention to the fried breakfast!) its actually not that bad a meal. It appears to consist of 1 sausage, 1 fried egg, 1 slice of toast, 1 hash brown and baked beans.  Looking at this through rose tinted specs I'm going to suggest that the breakfast you were looking at was in fact that of the coach driver...................certainly looks like the sort of breakfast a coach driver rather than a professional footballer would or should be eating on a match day ~ what do others think now? Were it not the coach driver's then maybe that of John Wotshisname....................the big fat "minder" from Leroy's brief two minute reign ~ just don't tell me that in this day and age we have some players eating like that on a match day! |
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Post by awayday on Sept 7, 2010 11:57:05 GMT
I wasn't on about loyalty, I go to about 15 away games a season and 5 or 6 home games, I consider myself a fan, but no way loyal, but I like to think pretty much every single person with some form of yellow blood in them have put them selves out to support the team, whether it be merchandise, attendance or just listening to the radio from afar. I know (like most) I have sacraficed things to go to games and when the team come over to clap our support I believe they are genuinley saying thank you.
Looking back yes John Salako's grief was over the top and to be fair you yourself got some unwaranted grief. Me personally I can take it with a pinch of salt, but as I said before, now I am getting to the stage I want to take my 5 year old daughter I don't want her to think that these words are acceptable in every day society.
But all I ask is, don't for one minute think these people are not fans, or call them the names some people have thrown on here.
Unfortunatly Stevenage (which is one of my favourite away days) is a miss this year due to my mum's milestone birthday celebration. But I will be at the Swindon JPT game and Shrews away. If you are at either game, I am the one with the black drum if they let me in with it, please come and say hello.
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 7, 2010 12:06:56 GMT
I work with children with mental health issues and I am sorry the word "Retard" is up there with "Paki" or "Niger", they should not be used. You are perfectly in order and correct in making that statement Awayday, I hold my hand up for using the term "retard" on here once ~ it wasn't one of my finer moments and one for which I apologised and still regret having used it. The FACT is though that this bunch of fools are making OUR club a laughing stock ~ remember how Setanta had to make sure they didn't put a crowd effects mike anywhere near them? Remember the calls from their like for an organised effort to embarrass Setanta on air? There's nothing guaranteed to make a club/venue look more stupid than to have a crowd of gurning idiots in the background during TV newsflashes or spewing their idiotic nonsense in the background during sound bites; and their apparent inability to accept anything out of their very limited comfort zone (different landscapes, lack of a beach, different accents or different ethnicity) reflects badly not just on them but on the whole support by the mere fact of association and it is in the greater interest of that support to rid ourselves of them. I don't however subscribe to the often proferred view from others of "my generation" that corporal punishment or (abuse as I would term it) is the answer. In my opinion the standard of teacher behaviour and teaching in schools when I was there as a pupil was abysmal and the bullying bravado of some of the male teachers was inicative more of that of a snivelling coward who would sink to his knees and plead for mercy when thumped in a pub on a Friday night. Observing local youth and sports mentors working in the tough environment in which I now live has taught me that far more can be achieved through exemplary behaviour from those teachers/coaches/mentors than any thuggish idiocy from the old style tweed jacketed fashion victims we used to be "taught" by at NAGS who thought that assaulting pupils with classroom equipment was the way forward! |
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Post by Jon on Sept 7, 2010 12:19:19 GMT
.... It appears to consist of 1 sausage, 1 fried egg, 1 slice of toast, 1 hash brown and baked beans. ....I'm going to suggest that the breakfast you were looking at was in fact that of the coach driver................... ....Were it not the coach driver's then maybe that of John Wotshisname....................the big fat "minder" from Leroy's brief two minute reign If you mean John Milton, he does not have the physique of a "1 sausage, 1 fried egg, 1 slice of toast, 1 hash brown and baked beans" man. He has the physique of a "3 sausages, 4 rashers of bacon, black pudding, 2 fried eggs, 2 slices of fried bread, 4 hash browns and baked beans" man. I do speak from considerable personal experience on this matter. |
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Post by Jon on Sept 7, 2010 12:20:35 GMT
If you mean John Milton, he does not have the physique of a "1 sausage, 1 fried egg, 1 slice of toast, 1 hash brown and baked beans" man. He has the physique of a "3 sausages, 4 rashers of bacon, black pudding, 2 fried eggs, 2 slices of fried bread, 4 hash browns and baked beans" man. I do speak from considerable personal experience on this matter. Sorry. I forgot the mushrooms. |
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Post by awayday on Sept 7, 2010 12:24:28 GMT
Merse - Again I am not saying it was right what they did with Sultana Sports, and even I was ashamed at Weymouth when they sang what they did rather than clap off the team. But did you ever ask them why they hated Sultana Sports as much as they did? Some of them just joined in with the chanting, but some of them genuinley had a problem with matches being rescheduled just so they could be shown on telly.
Imagine planning your finances to go to away trips on a Saturday, when you can grab lifts with mates or the travel club, to then be told it is being played on a Monday night. Straight away most of the cheap lifts they could have got are gone, because some people don't want to travel on a school night. Then they have to lose half a days work so they have time to travel and then to top it all the corporation making all these demands on the clubs to change fixtures then go bust and can't afford to pay some of the smaller clubs what is due to them.
I am not saying Sultana Sports didn't put money into the club, as we know they did, but you need to look at some things from these guys eyes and remember these people struggle to earn the money they spend on football. Not because of their education, or IQ but because of the current financial climate and the lack of work in South Devon at the best of times let alone at the moment.
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Post by dantufc on Sept 7, 2010 12:55:53 GMT
Awayday, to say you weren't talking about loyalty is disingenuous. To quote:
“Most of these guys earn little money, but spend it all on following Torquay. They are there week in week out, most of them were there during the good old days of midweek games in the rain at Grays or the rubbish tip of Ebbsfleet. I am not saying their language is always suitable, but their dedication to follow their team does not deserve the sort of abuse you lot are throwing at them. Yes they are fans and don't you guys forget it, they buy their merchandise and season tickets and keep Torquay going financially, probably more than most of the fair weather fans that post on forums.”
Now to me that’s saying that they can’t be criticised because they regularly attend matches, as well as the people criticising them being fair weather fans.
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 7, 2010 12:58:15 GMT
I acknowledge your points regarding the social disadvantages of these guys Awayday, and of the limitations on earning potential in South Devon................my God we've been there enough times and it's done me little credit on here for having decided to leave all that behind years ago. I fully appreciate how their lives are disrupted by the FACT that games get covered by TV, now would THEY begin to appreciate how the quality of player employed is enhanced by TV money coming into the Football Club. Would THEY also take on board the FACT that there continued moronic behaviour discredits the club, the team and their fellow supporters? Now I have to sign off in order to get my son accross to Uxbridge for his football training tonight, a journey I have to make by public transport on the day of a Tube strike. Will I be abusing the residents of West Drayton as I leave their train station? Will I be complaining at the lack of traffic noise and hustle and bustle over there compared with my North London neighbourhood? Perhaps I should abuse the first well known face I spy during my journey and call them a "Cnut" and just justify it by claiming "disappointment" at having my day re-scheduled. 
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Post by Rags on Sept 7, 2010 13:13:05 GMT
If you mean John Milton, he does not have the physique of a "1 sausage, 1 fried egg, 1 slice of toast, 1 hash brown and baked beans" man. He has the physique of a "3 sausages, 4 rashers of bacon, black pudding, 2 fried eggs, 2 slices of fried bread, 4 hash browns and baked beans" man. I do speak from considerable personal experience on this matter. Sorry. I forgot the mushrooms. The person breakfasting on the sausage, eggs, beans, hash browns and toast has a heavily tattoo-ed right arm: his face wasn't shown and he appeared to have a training number of double digits (22? although it wasn't Lathrope). I don't recognise any player who has a similar arm, but neither does John Milton, does he? Not to mention, as Jon has already done, that the plate looked too small to be Milton's... The person lunching on two eggs (fried or poached?), beans and buttered toast is not shown at all: apart from a blue top it could have been anyone, possibly even the BBC sound recordist! Kieron Charnock is shown queuing for food with what appears to be mushrooms, a grilled tomato and toast or hash browns already on his plate but he's too far away from the camera to clearly see what is on his plate. Manse is shown messing about with an ice cream sundae the evening before but not eating any of it. I don't recognise the player who is show taking a mouthful of sundae, was that Lathrope? If not, presumably it was one of the Scholars who travelled with the team. So, on the back of a short, edited television piece there are fans who have called into question the fitness of the players despite the regular attention of the club's manager and numerous other coaching staff; and even suggested they are "carrying a bit of weight", whatever that means. When he changed his top in front of the away end, The Bevanator showed all that he was carrying a bit of weight in the form of well-defined back muscles. In 2010, professional footballers usually have their fitness levels checked on a weekly basis, making any poor nutrition very difficult to continue. I very much doubt that Torquay United are any different in this. Personally, I don't believe that our players are unfit in any way, shape or form that is a result of poor eating habits, and that includes pizzas and cooked breakfasts; all of which have a valuable part to play in any sports professional/athletes weekly diet. Even Annie's doughnuts (Sky Sports Football Weekly show last Friday) have a place after a busy Monday's training as there is plenty of time to burn them off before the next game. Sports nutritionists are usually keen to point out that fat is a very important part of your diet, its the excess of fat that causes the problems. As I am constantly being reminded...  If the item has done anything for me, its convinced me that Holiday Inn breakfasts look very appetising and, if I can persuade Mrs Rags of the benefits, I'm all for staying in an HI for the next long-distance away game. |
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Post by awayday on Sept 7, 2010 13:29:51 GMT
Awayday, to say you weren't talking about loyalty is disingenuous. To quote: “Most of these guys earn little money, but spend it all on following Torquay. They are there week in week out, most of them were there during the good old days of midweek games in the rain at Grays or the rubbish tip of Ebbsfleet. I am not saying their language is always suitable, but their dedication to follow their team does not deserve the sort of abuse you lot are throwing at them. Yes they are fans and don't you guys forget it, they buy their merchandise and season tickets and keep Torquay going financially, probably more than most of the fair weather fans that post on forums.” Now to me that’s saying that they can’t be criticised because they regularly attend matches, as well as the people criticising them being fair weather fans. I never rmentioned the words loyal, or said they shouldn't be criticised. The point I was making was they are still Fans and it sometimes seems they get criticised by people on forums who were not even at the game in question if indeed any. |
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Post by jmgull on Sept 7, 2010 13:31:11 GMT
If you mean John Milton, he does not have the physique of a "1 sausage, 1 fried egg, 1 slice of toast, 1 hash brown and baked beans" man. He has the physique of a "3 sausages, 4 rashers of bacon, black pudding, 2 fried eggs, 2 slices of fried bread, 4 hash browns and baked beans" man. I do speak from considerable personal experience on this matter. Sorry. I forgot the mushrooms. ...and the grilled Tomato  |
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Post by dantufc on Sept 7, 2010 13:41:35 GMT
Awayday,
At the moment they are being criticised by what appears to be the majority of fans on both forums. These are people that have witnessed their behaviour at many games and are getting pretty fed up with it.
As you seem to know the fans in question it’d be interesting to know their views and whether they intend to act on this groundswell of opinion.
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